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From: ebiederm@xmission.com (Eric W. Biederman)
To: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:27:58 -0700
Message-ID: <m18wm38ws1.fsf@fess.ebiederm.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <49E43F1D.3070400@kernel.org> (Tejun Heo's message of "Tue\, 14 Apr 2009 16\:45\:33 +0900")

Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> writes:

> Eric W. Biederman wrote:
>> Do you know of a case where we actually have multiple tasks accessing
>> a file simultaneously?
>
> I don't have anything at hand but multithread/process server accepting
> on the same socket comes to mind.  I don't think it would be a very
> rare thing.  If you confine the scope to character devices or sysfs,
> it could be quite rare tho.

Yes.  I think I can safely exclude sockets, and not bother with
reference counting them.

The only strong evidence I have that multi-threading on a single file
descriptor is likely to be common is that we have pread and pwrite
syscalls.  At the same time the number of races we have in struct file
if it is accessed by multiple threads at the same time, suggests
that at least for cases where you have an offset it doesn't happen often.

I cringe when I see per cpu counters for something like files that we
are likely to have a lot of.  I keep imagining a quadratic explosion
in data size.  In practice we are likely to have a small cpu count <=
8-16 cpus so it is likely ok.  Especially if we are only allocating 8
bytes per cpu per file.  I guess in total that is at most 128K per file.
8bytes*16k cpus.  With the default system file-max on my systems 203871
to 705863, it looks like we would max out at between 1M and 5M per cpu.
Still a lot but survivable.

Somewhere it all falls down, but only if you max out a very rare
very large machine, and that seems to be case with just about everything.

Which all leads me to say that if we can avoid per cpu memory and not impact
performance I want to do that.

Eric

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  reply index

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-11 12:01 Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:03 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/9] mm: Introduce remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:05 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/9] mm: Implement generic support for revoking a mapping Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:06 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/9] sysfs: Use remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:07 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/9] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:08 ` [RFC][PATCH 5/9] vfs: Introduce basic infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 22:12   ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-04-15  2:55     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:10 ` [RFC][PATCH 6/9] vfs: Utilize fops_read_lock where appropriate Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:11 ` [RFC][PATCH 7/9] vfs: Optimize fops_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:13 ` [RFC][PATCH 8/9] vfs: Implement generic revoked file operations Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 18:56   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 20:04     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:31       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 21:53         ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:54       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 21:02         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 23:06           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:14 ` [RFC][PATCH 9/9] proc: Use the generic vfs revoke facility that now exists Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 15:58 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Al Viro
2009-04-11 16:49   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 16:56     ` Al Viro
2009-04-11 23:57       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:21       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  3:16 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14  7:39   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  7:45     ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14  8:27       ` Eric W. Biederman [this message]
2009-04-14  8:49         ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 15:07         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-14 19:09           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:45 ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 01/23] mm: Introduce revoke_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 22:25     ` Andrew Morton
2009-06-02  0:12       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 02/23] vfs: Implement unpoll_file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-06  8:08     ` Al Viro
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 03/23] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  7:06     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05 19:33       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:38         ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 18:38           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-10  6:05             ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 04/23] vfs: Introduce infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  5:16     ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02  6:51       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  7:08         ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02  7:14     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 17:06       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 20:52         ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03  6:37           ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 22:56       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03  6:38         ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05  9:03     ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-05 19:06       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 05/23] vfs: Teach lseek to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 06/23] vfs: Teach read/write to use file_hotplug_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 07/23] vfs: Teach sendfile,splice,tee,and vmsplice to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:39     ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-05 19:37       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 08/23] vfs: Teach readdir " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 09/23] vfs: Teach poll and select " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 10/23] vfs: Teach do_path_lookup " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 11/23] mm: Teach mmap " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 12/23] vfs: Teach fcntl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 13/23] vfs: Teach ioctl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 14/23] vfs: Teach flock " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 15/23] vfs: Teach fallocate, and filp_close " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 16/23] vfs: Teach fstatfs, fstatfs64, ftruncate, fchdir, fchmod, fchown " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 17/23] proc: Teach /proc/<pid>/fd " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 18/23] vfs: Teach epoll " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 16:51     ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 21:23       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 21:52         ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 22:51           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 14:57             ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-03 20:53               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-04  0:50                 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-04  1:42                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 19/23] eventpoll: Fix comment Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 20/23] vfs: Teach aio to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 21/23] vfs: Teach fsync " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 22/23] vfs: Teach fadvice to file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 23/23] vfs: Teach readahead to use the file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:25     ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-06  8:03   ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Al Viro
2009-06-08  9:41     ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 10:24       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-08 16:29       ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 16:44         ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 17:50           ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 18:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-08 18:50               ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 19:18                 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-09  6:42                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:52                     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09  5:50             ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-09  6:31               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09  6:22     ` Eric W. Biederman

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