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From: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
To: Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.com>, Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm/mincore: allow for making sys_mincore() privileged
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 15:39:06 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190109043906.GF27534@dastard> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.YFH.7.76.1901090326460.16954@cbobk.fhfr.pm>

On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 03:31:35AM +0100, Jiri Kosina wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, Dave Chinner wrote:
> 
> > > But mincore is certainly the easiest interface, and the one that
> > > doesn't require much effort or setup.
> > 
> > Off the top of my head, here's a few vectors for reading the page
> > cache residency state without perturbing the page cache residency
> > pattern:
> > 	- mincore
> > 	- preadv2(RWF_NOWAIT)
> > 	- fadvise(POSIX_FADV_RANDOM); timed read(2) syscalls
> > 	- madvise(MADV_RANDOM); timed read of first byte in each page
> 
> While I obviously agree that all those are creating pagecache sidechannel 
> in principle, I think we really should mostly focus on the first two (with 
> mincore() already having been covered).

FWIW, I just realised that the easiest, most reliable way to
invalidate the page cache over a file range is simply to do a
O_DIRECT read on it. IOWs, all three requirements of this
information leak - highly specific, reliable cache invalidation
control, controlled cache instantiation and 3rd-party detection of
cache residency can all be performed with just the read(2)
syscall...

> Rationale has been provided by Daniel Gruss in this thread -- if the 
> attacker is left with cache timing as the only available vector, he's 
> going to be much more successful with mounting hardware cache timing 
> attack anyway.

No, he said:

"Restricting mincore() is sufficient to fix the hardware-agnostic
part."

That's not correct - preadv2(RWF_NOWAIT) is also hardware agnostic
and provides exactly the same information about the page cache as
mincore.  Timed read/mmap access loops for cache observation are
also hardware agnostic, and on fast SSD based storage will only be
marginally slower bandwidth than preadv2(RWF_NOWAIT).

Attackers will pick whatever leak vector we don't fix, so we either
fix them all (which I think is probably impossible without removing
caching altogether) or we start thinking about how we need to
isolate the page cache so that information isn't shared across
important security boundaries (e.g. page cache contents are
per-mount namespace).

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-01-09  4:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 215+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-05 17:27 [PATCH] mm/mincore: allow for making sys_mincore() privileged Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 17:27 ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 19:14 ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-05 19:24   ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 19:24     ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 19:38     ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-08  9:14       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2019-01-08 11:37         ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-08 11:37           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-08 13:53           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2019-01-08 14:08             ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2019-01-05 19:44 ` kbuild test robot
2019-01-05 19:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 19:46   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 20:12   ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 20:12     ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 20:17     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 20:17       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 20:43       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 20:43         ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 21:54         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 21:54           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06 11:33           ` Kevin Easton
2019-01-08  8:50           ` Kevin Easton
2019-01-18 14:23           ` Tejun Heo
2019-01-05 20:13   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 20:13     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 19:56 ` kbuild test robot
2019-01-05 22:54 ` Jann Horn
2019-01-05 22:54   ` Jann Horn
2019-01-05 23:05   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:05     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:16     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:16       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:28       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:28         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:39       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-05 23:39         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06  0:11         ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-01-06  0:22           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06  0:22             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06  1:50             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06  1:50               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06 21:46               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-06 21:46                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-08  4:43                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-08 17:57                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-08 17:57                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-09  2:24                     ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-09  2:31                       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-09  2:31                         ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-09  4:39                         ` Dave Chinner [this message]
2019-01-09 10:08                           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-09 10:08                             ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-10  1:15                             ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-10  7:54                               ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-10  7:54                                 ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-09 18:25                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-09 18:25                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10  0:44                             ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-10  1:18                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10  1:18                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10  5:26                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-10  5:26                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-10 14:47                                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-01-10 21:44                                     ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-10 21:59                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10 21:59                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  1:47                                   ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-10  7:03                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-10 11:47                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10 11:47                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10 12:24                                     ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-10 12:24                                       ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-10 22:11                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-10 22:11                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  2:03                                         ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-11  2:18                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  2:18                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  4:04                                             ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-11  4:08                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11  7:20                                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-11  7:08                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  7:08                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  7:36                                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-11 16:26                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11 16:26                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-15 23:45                                                     ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-16  4:54                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  4:54                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:49                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:49                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-17  1:26                                                         ` Dave Chinner
2019-02-20 15:49                                                     ` Nicolai Stange
2019-01-11  4:57                                         ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-11  7:11                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  7:11                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-11  7:32                                             ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-16  0:42                                         ` Josh Snyder
2019-01-16  5:00                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:00                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:25                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-16  5:34                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:34                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:46                                                 ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-16  5:58                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  5:58                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16  6:34                                                     ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-16  7:52                                                       ` Josh Snyder
2019-01-16  7:52                                                         ` Josh Snyder
2019-01-16 12:18                                                         ` Kevin Easton
2019-01-17 21:45                                                         ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-18  4:49                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-18  4:49                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-18 18:58                                                             ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-16 16:12                                                     ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-16 16:12                                                       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-16 17:48                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16 17:48                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-16 20:23                                                         ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-16 20:23                                                           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-16 21:37                                                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-01-16 21:41                                                             ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-16 21:41                                                               ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-17  9:52                                                               ` Cyril Hrubis
2019-01-28 13:49                                                               ` Cyril Hrubis
2019-01-17  4:51                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-17  4:51                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-18  4:54                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-18  4:54                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-17  1:49                                                           ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-23 20:27                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-23 20:27                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-23 20:35                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-23 20:35                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-23 23:12                                                               ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-23 23:12                                                                 ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-24  0:20                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-24  0:20                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-01-24  0:24                                                             ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-24 12:45                                                               ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-24 14:25                                                                 ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-24 14:25                                                                   ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-27 22:35                                                                   ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-27 22:35                                                                     ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-28  0:05                                                                     ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-29 23:52                                                                       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-30  9:09                                                                         ` Michal Hocko
2019-01-30 12:29                                                                           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-16 12:36                                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-01-10 14:50                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-01-11  7:36                               ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-11  7:36                                 ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-17  2:22                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-17  8:18                                   ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-17  8:18                                     ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-17 21:06                                     ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-07  4:32             ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-07 10:33               ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-07 11:08                 ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-07 11:59                   ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-07 13:29                   ` Daniel Gruss
2019-01-07 10:10         ` Michael Ellerman
2019-01-05 23:09   ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-05 23:09     ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-30 12:44 ` [PATCH 0/3] mincore() and IOCB_NOWAIT adjustments Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-30 12:44   ` [PATCH 1/3] mm/mincore: make mincore() more conservative Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-31  9:43     ` Michal Hocko
2019-01-31  9:51       ` Dominique Martinet
2019-01-31 17:46       ` Josh Snyder
2019-02-01  8:56     ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-03-06 23:13     ` Andrew Morton
2019-03-07  0:01       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-03-07  0:40         ` Dominique Martinet
2019-03-07  5:46           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-30 12:44   ` [PATCH 2/3] mm/filemap: initiate readahead even if IOCB_NOWAIT is set for the I/O Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-30 15:04     ` Florian Weimer
2019-01-30 15:15       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-31 10:47         ` Florian Weimer
2019-01-31 11:34           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-31  9:56     ` Michal Hocko
2019-01-31 10:15       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-31 10:23         ` Michal Hocko
2019-01-31 10:30           ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-31 11:32             ` Michal Hocko
2019-01-31 17:54           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-02-01  5:13             ` Dave Chinner
2019-02-01  7:05               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-02-01  7:21                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-02-01  1:44       ` Dave Chinner
2019-02-12 15:48         ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-31 12:04     ` Daniel Gruss
2019-01-31 12:06       ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-31 12:08       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-01-31 12:57         ` Daniel Gruss
2019-01-30 12:44   ` [PATCH 3/3] mm/mincore: provide mapped status when cached status is not allowed Vlastimil Babka
2019-01-31 10:09     ` Michal Hocko
2019-02-01  9:04       ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-02-01  9:11         ` Michal Hocko
2019-02-01  9:27           ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-02-06 20:14             ` Jiri Kosina
2019-02-12  3:44         ` Jiri Kosina
2019-02-12  6:36           ` Michal Hocko
2019-02-12 13:09             ` Jiri Kosina
2019-02-12 14:01               ` Michal Hocko
2019-03-06 12:11   ` [PATCH 0/3] mincore() and IOCB_NOWAIT adjustments Jiri Kosina
2019-03-06 22:35     ` Andrew Morton
2019-03-06 22:48       ` Jiri Kosina
2019-03-06 23:23         ` Andrew Morton
2019-03-06 23:32           ` Dominique Martinet
2019-03-06 23:38             ` Andrew Morton
2019-03-09 16:53               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-03-12 14:17   ` [PATCH v2 0/2] prevent mincore() page cache leaks Vlastimil Babka
2019-03-12 14:17     ` [PATCH v2 1/2] mm/mincore: make mincore() more conservative Vlastimil Babka
2019-03-12 14:17     ` [PATCH v2 2/2] mm/mincore: provide mapped status when cached status is not allowed Vlastimil Babka

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