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From: David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM>
To: 'Peter Zijlstra' <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>
Cc: Marco Elver <elver@google.com>,
	Nick Desaulniers <ndesaulniers@google.com>,
	Sami Tolvanen <samitolvanen@google.com>,
	"Masahiro Yamada" <masahiroy@kernel.org>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	clang-built-linux <clang-built-linux@googlegroups.com>,
	Kernel Hardening <kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	Linux Kbuild mailing list <linux-kbuild@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-pci@vger.kernel.org" <linux-pci@vger.kernel.org>,
	"maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)"
	<x86@kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 00/22] add support for Clang LTO
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 14:20:13 +0000
Message-ID: <4427b0f825324da4b1640e32265b04bd@AcuMS.aculab.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200701091054.GW4781@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>

From: Peter Zijlstra
> Sent: 01 July 2020 10:11
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 01:30:16PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:12:43PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> 
> > > I'm not convinced C11 memory_order_consume would actually work for us,
> > > even if it would work. That is, given:
> > >
> > >   https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20150520005510.GA23559@linux.vnet.ibm.com/
> > >
> > > only pointers can have consume, but like I pointed out, we have code
> > > that relies on dependent loads from integers.
> >
> > I agree that C11 memory_order_consume is not normally what we want,
> > given that it is universally promoted to memory_order_acquire.
> >
> > However, dependent loads from integers are, if anything, more difficult
> > to defend from the compiler than are control dependencies.  This applies
> > doubly to integers that are used to index two-element arrays, in which
> > case you are just asking the compiler to destroy your dependent loads
> > by converting them into control dependencies.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware. However, as you might know, I'm firmly in the 'C is a
> glorified assembler' camp (as I expect most actual OS people are, out of
> necessity if nothing else) and if I wanted a control dependency I
> would've bloody well written one.

I write in C because doing register tracking is hard :-)
I've got an hdlc implementation in C that is carefully adjusted
so that the worst case path is bounded.
I probably know every one of the 1000 instructions in it.

Would an asm statement that uses the same 'register' for input and
output but doesn't actually do anything help?
It won't generate any code, but the compiler ought to assume that
it might change the value - so can't do optimisations that track
the value across the call.

> I think an optimizing compiler is awesome, but only in so far as that
> optimization is actually helpful -- and yes, I just stepped into a giant
> twilight zone there. That is, any optimization that has _any_
> controversy should be controllable (like -fno-strict-overflow
> -fno-strict-aliasing) and I'd very much like the same here.

I'm fed up of gcc generating the code that uses SIMD instructions
for the 'tail' loop at the end of a function that is already doing
SIMD operations for the main part of the loop.
And compilers that convert a byte copy loop to 'rep movsb'.
If I'm copying 3 or 4 bytes I don't want a 40 clock overhead.

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)


  reply index

Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-24 20:31 Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 01/22] objtool: use sh_info to find the base for .rela sections Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 02/22] kbuild: add support for Clang LTO Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:53   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 21:29     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-25  2:26   ` Nathan Chancellor
2020-06-25 16:13     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 03/22] kbuild: lto: fix module versioning Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 04/22] kbuild: lto: fix recordmcount Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 21:27   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-24 21:45     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-25  7:45       ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-25 16:15         ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-25 20:02           ` [RFC][PATCH] objtool,x86_64: Replace recordmcount with objtool Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-25 20:54             ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-25 22:40             ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-26 11:29               ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-26 11:42                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-17 17:28                 ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-17 17:36                   ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-17 17:47                     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-17 18:05                       ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-20 16:52                         ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-22 17:58                           ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-22 18:07                             ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-22 17:55                 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-22 18:41                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-22 19:09                     ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-22 20:03                       ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-22 23:56                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-23  0:06                         ` Steven Rostedt
2020-08-06 22:09                           ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 05/22] kbuild: lto: postpone objtool Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 21:19   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-24 21:49     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-25  7:47       ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-25 16:22         ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-25 18:33           ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-25 19:32             ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 06/22] kbuild: lto: limit inlining Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 21:20   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-24 23:37     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 07/22] kbuild: lto: merge module sections Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 21:01   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 21:31     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 08/22] kbuild: lto: remove duplicate dependencies from .mod files Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 21:13   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 09/22] init: lto: ensure initcall ordering Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 10/22] init: lto: fix PREL32 relocations Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 11/22] pci: " Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-17 20:26   ` Bjorn Helgaas
2020-07-22 18:15     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 12/22] modpost: lto: strip .lto from module names Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 22:05   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 13/22] scripts/mod: disable LTO for empty.c Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:57   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 14/22] efi/libstub: disable LTO Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 15/22] drivers/misc/lkdtm: disable LTO for rodata.o Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 16/22] arm64: export CC_USING_PATCHABLE_FUNCTION_ENTRY Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 17/22] arm64: vdso: disable LTO Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:58   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 21:09     ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 23:51       ` Andi Kleen
2020-06-24 21:52     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 23:05       ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-24 23:39         ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 18/22] arm64: allow LTO_CLANG and THINLTO to be selected Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 19/22] x86, vdso: disable LTO only for vDSO Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 20/22] x86, ftrace: disable recordmcount for ftrace_make_nop Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:31 ` [PATCH 21/22] x86, relocs: Ignore L4_PAGE_OFFSET relocations Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 20:32 ` [PATCH 22/22] x86, build: allow LTO_CLANG and THINLTO to be selected Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-24 21:15 ` [PATCH 00/22] add support for Clang LTO Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-24 21:30   ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-06-25  8:27     ` Will Deacon
2020-06-24 21:31   ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-06-25  8:03     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-25  8:24       ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-25  8:57         ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-30 19:19           ` Marco Elver
2020-06-30 20:12             ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-06-30 20:30               ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-01  9:10                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-01 14:20                   ` David Laight [this message]
2020-07-01 16:06                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-02  9:37                       ` David Laight
2020-07-02 18:00                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-01  9:41                 ` Marco Elver
2020-07-01 10:03                   ` Will Deacon
2020-07-01 11:40                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-01 14:06                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-01 15:05                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-01 16:03                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-02  8:20                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-02 17:59                             ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-03 13:13                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-03 13:25                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-03 14:51                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-03 14:42                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-06 16:26                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-06 18:29                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-06 18:39                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-07-06 19:40                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-07-06 23:41                                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2020-06-28 16:56 ` Masahiro Yamada
2020-06-29 23:20   ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-07 15:51     ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-07 16:05       ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-07 16:56         ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-07-07 17:17           ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-07-07 17:30             ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-07-11 16:32 ` Paul Menzel
2020-07-12  8:59   ` Sedat Dilek
2020-07-12 18:40     ` Nathan Chancellor
2020-07-14  9:44       ` Sedat Dilek
2020-07-14 17:54         ` Nick Desaulniers
2020-07-12 23:34   ` Sami Tolvanen
2020-07-14 12:16     ` Paul Menzel
2020-07-14 12:35       ` Sedat Dilek

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