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From: Crutcher Dunnavant <crutcher@datastacks.com>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Encrypted Swap
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 02:41:01 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20010807024101.B2399@mueller.datastacks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0108070106390.7542-100000@localhost.localdomain> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108062239550.5316-100000@mackman.net> <200108070624.f776Ofl21096@www.2ka.mipt.ru>
In-Reply-To: <200108070624.f776Ofl21096@www.2ka.mipt.ru>; from johnpol@2ka.mipt.ru on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:27:20AM +0400

++ 07/08/01 10:27 +0400 - John Polyakov:
> Hello.
> 
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
> Ryan Mack <rmack@mackman.net> wrote:
> 
> RM> Apparently some of you have missed the point.  Currently, the only way
> to
> RM> write any form of encryption application is to have it run setuid root
> so
> RM> it can lock pages in RAM.  Otherwise, files (or keys) that are
> encrypted
> RM> on disk may be left in an unencrypted state on swap, allowing for
> RM> potential recovery by anyone with hardware access.  Encrypted swap
> makes
> RM> locking pages unnecessary, which relieves many sysadmins from the
> anxiety
> RM> of having yet-another-setuid application installed on their server in
> RM> addition to freeing up additional pages to be swapped.
> 
> Hmmm, let us suppose, that i copy your crypted partition per bit to my
> disk.
> After it I will disassemble your decrypt programm and will find a key....
> 
> In any case, if anyone have crypted data, he MUST decrypt them.
> And for it he MUST have some key.
> If this is a software key, it MUST NOT be encrypted( it's obviously,
> becouse in other case, what will decrypt this key?) and anyone, who have
> PHYSICAL access to the machine, can get this key.
> Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. The encryption key for the swap space can be created
at boot time. We can wait for the hardware to give us enough entropy
into the random number gen, and make a key. Then we mount the swap
space, and all reads/writes go through that key. But the key is never
recorded. The swap data is gone, even to legitimate users of the system,
after a reboot.

It is thus perfectly reasonable to wish to encrypt swap. In addition,
there are good reasons to move in the direction of a non-All-Powerful
root user. This is what the work in capabilities begins to approach.
So simply waving your hands and saying that root can see it, so what
does it matter, is not a long term solution to the problem.

-- 
Crutcher        <crutcher@datastacks.com>
GCS d--- s+:>+:- a-- C++++$ UL++++$ L+++$>++++ !E PS+++ PE Y+ PGP+>++++
    R-(+++) !tv(+++) b+(++++) G+ e>++++ h+>++ r* y+>*$

  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-08-07  6:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 109+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-08-07  2:28 Encrypted Swap David Spreen
2001-08-07  3:56 ` Justin Guyett
2001-08-07  4:01   ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07  4:23   ` John Polyakov
2001-08-07  4:36     ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07  5:12     ` Garett Spencley
2001-08-07  5:55       ` Ryan Mack
2001-08-07 12:37         ` Michael Bacarella
2001-08-17 14:50         ` Holger Lubitz
2001-08-17 15:39           ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-17 15:57             ` Holger Lubitz
2001-08-17 16:34               ` Gerhard Mack
2001-08-17 16:50               ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-17 17:06             ` Adrian Cox
2001-08-17 17:16               ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-17 17:22                 ` Jacob Alifrangis
2001-08-17 17:36                 ` Adrian Cox
2001-08-17 18:51                   ` Nicholas Knight
2001-08-17 19:30                     ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-18  8:51                       ` Adrian Cox
2001-08-18 11:02                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-08-19  8:51                           ` Adrian Cox
2001-08-20  1:27                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-20 11:08                           ` Helge Hafting
2001-08-20 11:50                           ` Ian Stirling
2001-08-21 13:55                       ` Andreas Bombe
2001-08-17 20:00                     ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-07  6:27       ` John Polyakov
2001-08-06 23:28         ` Rob Landley
2001-08-07 10:10           ` Christopher E. Brown
2001-08-07 14:05             ` Joel Jaeggli
2001-08-07  6:41         ` Crutcher Dunnavant [this message]
2001-08-07  6:45         ` Ryan Mack
2001-08-07  6:57         ` Evgeny Polyakov
2001-08-07  7:08         ` Evgeny Polyakov
2001-08-07  7:23           ` Sean Hunter
2001-08-07  8:39             ` Ben Ford
2001-08-07 12:28             ` Kevin Krieser
2001-08-07 12:39               ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-07 13:39               ` Re[2]: " s0mbre
2001-08-08  2:24                 ` Re[2]: Encrypted Swap (random off-topic snippet) Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-08-08  2:51                   ` Michael H. Warfield
2001-08-07 14:21               ` Encrypted Swap Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
2001-08-07  7:26           ` Ryan Mack
2001-08-07  7:34           ` Jeffrey Considine
2001-08-07  7:49           ` Crutcher Dunnavant
2001-08-07  9:01           ` Peter Wächtler
2001-08-07 20:09       ` Maciej Zenczykowski
2001-08-07 20:30   ` Ian Stirling
2001-08-07  4:12 ` Steve VanDevender
2001-08-07  7:34   ` Steve VanDevender
2001-08-07  7:55     ` Crutcher Dunnavant
2001-08-07 15:17     ` Garett Spencley
2001-08-07  7:49   ` Helge Hafting
2001-08-07  7:58     ` Crutcher Dunnavant
2001-08-07  9:23       ` Helge Hafting
2001-08-07 13:29         ` Wichert Akkerman
2001-08-07 15:56         ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07 16:54           ` Alan Cox
2001-08-07 17:10             ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07  9:52   ` Brian May
2001-08-07 14:48     ` Joel Jaeggli
2001-08-07 15:59       ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07 16:18         ` Joel Jaeggli
2001-08-07 16:24           ` Florian Weimer
2001-08-07 17:14     ` [OT] Cold, Dead Hard drives (was: Encrypted Swap) Stephen Satchell
2001-08-08  2:13     ` Encrypted Swap Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-08-07 10:33 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2001-08-13  3:32   ` swap & deadlocks [was Re: Encrypted Swap] Pavel Machek
     [not found] <no.id>
2001-08-07 14:17 ` Encrypted Swap Alan Cox
2001-08-07 15:16   ` Crutcher Dunnavant
2001-08-07 16:01     ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07 14:37 encrypted swap David Maynor
2001-08-07 14:48 ` Billy Harvey
2001-08-07 16:03 ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-08-07 15:06 David Maynor
2001-08-07 15:11 ` Florian Weimer
2001-08-07 15:43   ` Joel Jaeggli
2001-08-07 15:30 ` Garett Spencley
2001-08-07 16:21 ` David Spreen
2001-08-08  8:11 ` Helge Hafting
2001-08-07 15:28 David Maynor
2001-08-07 15:51 ` Florian Weimer
2001-08-07 17:30 Encrypted Swap David Maynor
2001-08-07 17:27 ` Rik van Riel
2001-08-07 18:53 encrypted swap Torrey Hoffman
2001-08-07 19:15 ` Thomas Pornin
2001-08-07 19:23 ` Dan Podeanu
2001-08-07 19:48   ` Andreas Dilger
2001-08-07 20:04   ` Marty Poulin
2001-08-07 21:06   ` David Wagner
2001-08-07 21:56     ` D. Stimits
2001-08-07 21:44   ` Pavel Machek
2001-08-07 19:48 ` Justin Guyett
2001-08-07 20:05   ` Alan Cox
2001-08-07 20:17   ` Bill Rugolsky Jr.
2001-08-07 21:40 David Spreen
2001-08-17 17:10 Encrypted Swap David Christensen
2001-08-17 17:21 ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-17 18:41   ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-08-17 19:05     ` Dan Hollis
2001-08-18  9:52       ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-08-18 10:24         ` Nicholas Knight
2001-08-18 12:32           ` Eric W. Biederman
2001-08-17 19:20     ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-08-18 10:34       ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found] <fa.kmbqblv.v3uvig@ifi.uio.no>
2001-08-18 14:53 ` Ted Unangst
2001-08-18 15:17   ` Mr. James W. Laferriere
2001-08-20 11:03   ` Helge Hafting

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