From: Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: billh@gnuppy.monkey.org, paul@clubi.ie, riel@conectiva.com.br,
Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers?
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:19:27 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030104011926.GB4472@mark.mielke.cc> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E18UYSe-0004v1-00@fencepost.gnu.org>
On Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 03:30:32PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:
> > You don't seem to mind the fact that my freedom to use Linux would be
> > hampered if you successfully prove that [non-free] modules for
> > Linux are illegal.
> I'm not trying to prove this--as I see it, Linus gave permission for
> them, which means they are legal. I regret his decision to do this,
> but I cannot change it.
You can't "regret" a decision that somebody else has made. To "regret"
something means to feel sorry for something. You don't have anything to
be sorry about.
> But let's suppose that that were changed. It would not affect your
> "freedom" to use Linux (and GNU/Linux), only whether it runs on a
> certain computer. It is true that this might mean a practical
> sacrifice--you might have to get a different kind of computer, for
> instance. I don't see that as a horrible thing. We look for
> computers that work with free drivers; you can too.
You are limited the scope of this discussion to hardware. For an
example of a software module that I regularly use in my every day job,
consider the MVFS module used to allow dynamic file system access to
ClearCase views. The MVFS module comes with the ClearCase distribution
as a small bit of open source glue, and a closed source object file
that implements MVFS.
> You don't really have freedom now, if you need a non-free module. In
> the long run, your best chance of being able to use a fully free
> GNU/Linux system on the hardware you use is if we stand firm together
> for the freedom of the system.
I have the freedom to use Linux and ClearCase. If closed source modules
were to be disallowed, it would be illegal for me to use this configuration,
and I would be forced to use HP-UX or Solaris, and not Linux.
> You seem to be saying that we should sit back and let these inevitable
> forces either convince all companies to make software free--or not.
> If we had such a passive attitude, no free system would exist.
> GNU/Linux exists because of people who were willing to work to have
> freedom. Freedom does not yet prevail, and we have plenty more work
> to do to make that happen. And after we fully have freedom, we will
> still have to work, to make sure we don't lose it.
I'm saying that if you truly have a just cause, you don't need a hammer
or a sickle to force people to see things your way. Intelligent people
will have no choice but to follow your lead.
Visionaries should have faith in their own vision.
mark
--
mark@mielke.cc/markm@ncf.ca/markm@nortelnetworks.com __________________________
. . _ ._ . . .__ . . ._. .__ . . . .__ | Neighbourhood Coder
|\/| |_| |_| |/ |_ |\/| | |_ | |/ |_ |
| | | | | \ | \ |__ . | | .|. |__ |__ | \ |__ | Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them...
http://mark.mielke.cc/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-01-04 1:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 244+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-12-31 3:57 Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Hell.Surfers
2002-12-31 6:55 ` David Schwartz
2002-12-31 10:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:05 ` Xavier Bestel
2002-12-31 12:19 ` John Bradford
2002-12-31 14:22 ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-12-31 14:31 ` John Bradford
2003-01-01 19:28 ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 14:14 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-12-31 13:49 ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:26 ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 15:36 ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:44 ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 17:05 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-01 19:35 ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 15:11 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2002-12-31 22:36 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-01 16:45 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02 0:31 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 1:08 ` David Lang
2003-01-02 1:29 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 1:21 ` David Lang
2003-01-02 1:38 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 1:37 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02 2:57 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 5:58 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02 6:14 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 4:06 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 5:00 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 5:15 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 8:31 ` David S. Miller
2003-01-03 5:04 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 5:12 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 12:16 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 12:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:42 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:46 ` John Alvord
2003-01-03 14:48 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 16:13 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 16:58 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 14:04 ` Graham Murray
2003-01-05 22:37 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 1:43 ` Ian Molton
2003-01-06 5:26 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:44 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-06 16:06 ` Mark Mielke
[not found] ` <3E195A4B.B160B1D2@aitel.hist.no>
2003-01-06 11:23 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-07 9:08 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-07 15:15 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-08 10:06 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-08 12:28 ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:33 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 15:46 ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:46 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 16:00 ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-03 19:33 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:31 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:49 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 16:16 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 17:45 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 17:53 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 18:03 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:29 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 1:33 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 21:19 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:37 ` Disconnect
2003-01-03 23:44 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:52 ` jw schultz
2003-01-04 15:41 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 13:53 ` Daniel Egger
2003-01-03 16:16 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 16:37 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 18:38 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-03 19:02 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 19:10 ` Ben Greear
2003-01-03 20:21 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-04 1:51 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-04 1:24 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-04 5:28 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 8:06 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-04 8:21 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 6:04 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03 6:29 ` Brad Hards
2003-01-03 7:04 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:31 ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04 1:34 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 18:16 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 15:57 ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-03 19:44 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 20:39 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:17 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 6:55 ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04 9:06 ` Vincent Bernat
2003-01-04 21:04 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 18:39 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 22:06 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-04 22:23 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:10 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-05 0:00 ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 0:26 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 1:48 ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 10:14 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 20:40 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 21:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:18 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:58 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 21:53 ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-06 21:05 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-06 22:06 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-05 18:34 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 19:28 ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-05 22:13 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 17:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:29 ` RIZEN
2003-01-07 13:39 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:31 ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-06 17:39 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-07 13:40 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:17 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-08 8:00 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 15:26 ` yodaiken
2003-01-09 23:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:40 ` David D. Hagood
2003-01-10 0:02 ` yodaiken
2003-01-11 0:21 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 18:10 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-08 8:00 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 9:04 ` OT Naming. was: " Nils Petter Vaskinn
2003-01-08 11:23 ` Hacksaw
2003-01-08 12:09 ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-09 9:08 ` Hacksaw
2003-01-12 11:56 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:27 ` OT Naming. was: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closedsource drivers? Michael D. Shannon
2003-01-08 11:53 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Bill Huey
2003-01-09 23:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11 0:21 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10 0:12 ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-10 10:51 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10 15:36 ` Linux KERNEL mailinglist! Jan Harkes
2003-01-10 16:10 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Jeff Randall
2003-01-12 11:54 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:58 ` Jeff Randall
2003-01-14 5:47 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 5:47 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:37 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 11:23 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-07 15:10 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-03 4:38 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 20:31 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:35 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 23:45 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 23:58 ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-06 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 4:55 ` Philip Wyett
2003-01-03 23:01 ` Gauntlet Set NOW! Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 23:56 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 7:12 ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-04 9:14 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 9:45 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:01 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 19:31 ` Matan Ziv-Av
2003-01-04 19:43 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-06 10:56 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 1:22 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-05 5:33 ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-05 5:12 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 5:31 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 10:47 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 15:29 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09 7:28 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 7:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09 7:50 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-09 8:08 ` Andrew Morton
2003-01-09 8:57 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2003-01-09 23:06 ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-03 7:51 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:26 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:27 ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-05 21:24 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:08 ` Eric Ortega
2003-01-05 22:34 ` Ian Molton
2003-01-05 23:09 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 0:55 ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04 2:22 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 3:18 ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04 3:18 ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-04 6:00 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04 7:34 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 7:45 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 8:36 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04 8:52 ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04 9:16 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 21:47 ` Roman Zippel
2003-01-05 11:15 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-04 1:19 ` Mark Mielke [this message]
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 1:32 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 2:22 ` venom
2003-01-05 9:38 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-01-05 21:33 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:10 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 22:22 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 3:10 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 0:17 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 4:39 ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-05 5:35 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-06 16:24 ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-06 22:04 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-07 0:08 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-07 15:53 ` Georg Nikodym
2003-01-07 18:05 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-05 21:46 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:06 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 21:17 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:44 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:45 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 23:03 ` Xavier Bestel
2003-01-05 23:40 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-03 10:39 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 11:29 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 11:33 ` ZHAO Wei
2003-01-03 14:52 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 15:03 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-01-03 20:30 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:27 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02 6:12 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02 6:26 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02 8:51 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02 1:57 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-02 1:32 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 20:39 ` David Schwartz
[not found] <fa.ff58bdv.193ou06@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.glgbuvv.1m1g1he@ifi.uio.no>
2003-01-05 21:46 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? walt
2003-01-07 22:30 ` Adrian Bunk
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