From: Wolfgang Walter <ml-linux-kernel@studentenwerk.mhn.de>
To: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>
Cc: <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <rms@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers?
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 05:39:35 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200301050539.35205.ml-linux-kernel@studentenwerk.mhn.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030105001731.AAA11069@shell.webmaster.com@whenever>
On Sunday 05 January 2003 01:17, David Schwartz wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 18:44:58 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:
> >Defending shrink wrap licensing agreements, arguing to weaken
> >fair use and
> >first sale doctrines, and arguing that if you include a header it's
> >a derived
> >work is a strange way to defend intellectual freedom.
> >
> >Those are not my views. Are you confusing me with someone else?
>
> Then please explain to me how the GPL comes to apply to a person who
> did not agree to it as a condition of receiving a copyrighted work.
> Please explain to me why you think that the GPL should have applied
> to kernel modules that only include header files.
>
You seem not to understand copyright.
The GPL does not affect the user of the software. If you have bought a copy of
Red Linux distribution cd i.a. it is not necessary to accept the GPL (or BSD
or whatever license) to use the software. You may sell your received copy
when ever you want to ever you want for whatever price you can get - if you
do not keep a copy. As you can do with microsoft windows - if you bought it
(and did not licensed it from microsoft). I.a. it is not necessary to provide
source code because it is Red Hat which a) made the copy and b) did so by
accepting the GPL.
But if you want to make and use or distribute copies of that CD or distributed
works, well, then you must get explicit permission from the copyright owners
- as you would have to for any copyrightable work. This is so because of
copyright law. If you buy the software you only have the right to use it. You
do not have by default the right to distribute copies, make or distribute
derived works etc.
If the CD would be a copy of microsoft windows you would have to negotiate
with microsoft - probably they would not allow that you distribute a derived
version.
Now the authors of the software on the Red Hat CD make you an offer: you may
accept the GPL. If you do so, they allow you to make and distribute copies or
derived works under certain conditions. You don't have to accept the GPL. If
you do not, you may try to negotiate for other terms with the copyright
holders.
> That's a lot better than trying to arm twist others in to providing
> our freedom to use their works. When you talk about forcing a person
> to distribute the source code to a derived work, you are only talking
> about their control over what they added. When a person creates a
Do you understand? You are not allowed to produce derived works without
permission of the copyright owner. He may do so under what consitions he want
(or simply does not allow you to do so at all).
With the GPL the copyright owner(s) of the work grants you the right to do so
under certain conditions described under the GPL. One right is to produce
derived works at all and
Have you ever got permission from microsoft or adobe to produce derived works
from windows 2000 or photoshop?
> derived work of an open source work, all they have to offer is the
> value they added. In the name of freedom, you take their control over
> their work from them.
No, they allow you to do the work at all. By default you would not be allowed
to add value at all.
>
> This is the same "freedom" that socialism promises the workers. They
> call it the freedom to own the machinery they use to produce.
> Analogously, this "freedom" is really just the loss of the freedom of
> ownership.
No. The authors of the work has with your words - the "ownership" of his work.
Law says that one facete of that "ownership" is that he may allow or forbid
derived works. And if he allows someone to produce a derived work its under
his conditions.
The GPL does not restrict you. Contrary, it uses copyright law to establish a
pool of software with much more freedom as copyright law gives to you. It
only does not give you so much freedom to deny other people the same
freedoms. The copyright holders can only do so, because copyright law itself
give you none of these rights at all.
Richard Stallmann - if I understand him right - beliefs that the rights the
GPL grants should be granted (for software) by copyright law itself and
therefor granted for every software. You may argument about that.
But you cant't argument that an author as owner of his work should use a less
restrictive license than the GPL so you can make a derived work and
distribute it under a more restrictive license than GPL. Why should he want
to allow that at all (a lot of peoply allow that choosing a BSD-license -
nice gift)? Nobody can force him to do so. Its not the GPL which restricts
your freedom, it is copyright law and the author(s) of the work you want to
made a derived work from.
It is simply impossible that authors have control under which condition
derived works may be made from their works AND in the same time have the
right to made derived works from works of other authors without control of
these authors.
By the way: a completely different question is if a work is a derived work. Is
a driver for nvidia a derived work. Well, the GPL can not define that, of
course - because it only applies to derived works. No license can that. A
licence may state what it will not regard as a derived work.
The courts decide what is a derived work. The courts decide that your book
with a main character named Harry Potter, wizard studying in Hogwards, is a
derived work from 4 those well known Rowling-books and that you may not
distribute it without permission.
Greetings,
Wolfgang Walter
--
Wolfgang Walter
Studentenwerk München
Anstalt des öffentlichen Rechts
EDV
Leopoldstraße 15
80802 München
Tel: +49 89 38196-276
Fax: +49 89 38196-144
wolfgang.walter@studentenwerk.mhn.de
http://www.studentenwerk.mhn.de/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-01-05 4:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 244+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-12-31 3:57 Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Hell.Surfers
2002-12-31 6:55 ` David Schwartz
2002-12-31 10:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:05 ` Xavier Bestel
2002-12-31 12:19 ` John Bradford
2002-12-31 14:22 ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-12-31 14:31 ` John Bradford
2003-01-01 19:28 ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 14:14 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-12-31 13:49 ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:26 ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 15:36 ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:44 ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 17:05 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-01 19:35 ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 15:11 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2002-12-31 22:36 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-01 16:45 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02 0:31 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 1:08 ` David Lang
2003-01-02 1:29 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 1:21 ` David Lang
2003-01-02 1:38 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 1:37 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02 2:57 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 5:58 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02 6:14 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 4:06 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 5:00 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 5:15 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 8:31 ` David S. Miller
2003-01-03 5:04 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 5:12 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 12:16 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 12:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:42 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:46 ` John Alvord
2003-01-03 14:48 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 16:13 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 16:58 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 14:04 ` Graham Murray
2003-01-05 22:37 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 1:43 ` Ian Molton
2003-01-06 5:26 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:44 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-06 16:06 ` Mark Mielke
[not found] ` <3E195A4B.B160B1D2@aitel.hist.no>
2003-01-06 11:23 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-07 9:08 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-07 15:15 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-08 10:06 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-08 12:28 ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:33 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 15:46 ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:46 ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 16:00 ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-03 19:33 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:31 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:49 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 16:16 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 17:45 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 17:53 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 18:03 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:29 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 1:33 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 21:19 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:37 ` Disconnect
2003-01-03 23:44 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:52 ` jw schultz
2003-01-04 15:41 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 13:53 ` Daniel Egger
2003-01-03 16:16 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 16:37 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 18:38 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-03 19:02 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 19:10 ` Ben Greear
2003-01-03 20:21 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-04 1:51 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-04 1:24 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-04 5:28 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 8:06 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-04 8:21 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 6:04 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03 6:29 ` Brad Hards
2003-01-03 7:04 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:31 ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04 1:34 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 18:16 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 15:57 ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-03 19:44 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 20:39 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:17 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 6:55 ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04 9:06 ` Vincent Bernat
2003-01-04 21:04 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 18:39 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 22:06 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-04 22:23 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:10 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-05 0:00 ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 0:26 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 1:48 ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 10:14 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 20:40 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 21:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:18 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:58 ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 21:53 ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-06 21:05 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-06 22:06 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-05 18:34 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 19:28 ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-05 22:13 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 17:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:29 ` RIZEN
2003-01-07 13:39 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:31 ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-06 17:39 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-07 13:40 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:17 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-08 8:00 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 15:26 ` yodaiken
2003-01-09 23:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:40 ` David D. Hagood
2003-01-10 0:02 ` yodaiken
2003-01-11 0:21 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 18:10 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-08 8:00 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 9:04 ` OT Naming. was: " Nils Petter Vaskinn
2003-01-08 11:23 ` Hacksaw
2003-01-08 12:09 ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-09 9:08 ` Hacksaw
2003-01-12 11:56 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:27 ` OT Naming. was: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closedsource drivers? Michael D. Shannon
2003-01-08 11:53 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Bill Huey
2003-01-09 23:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11 0:21 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10 0:12 ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-10 10:51 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10 15:36 ` Linux KERNEL mailinglist! Jan Harkes
2003-01-10 16:10 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Jeff Randall
2003-01-12 11:54 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:58 ` Jeff Randall
2003-01-14 5:47 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 5:47 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:37 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 11:23 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-07 15:10 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-03 4:38 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 20:31 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:35 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 23:45 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 23:58 ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-06 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 4:55 ` Philip Wyett
2003-01-03 23:01 ` Gauntlet Set NOW! Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 23:56 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 7:12 ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-04 9:14 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 9:45 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:01 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 19:31 ` Matan Ziv-Av
2003-01-04 19:43 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-06 10:56 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 1:22 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-05 5:33 ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-05 5:12 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 5:31 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 10:47 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 15:29 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09 7:28 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 7:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09 7:50 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-09 8:08 ` Andrew Morton
2003-01-09 8:57 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2003-01-09 23:06 ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-03 7:51 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:26 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:27 ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-05 21:24 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:08 ` Eric Ortega
2003-01-05 22:34 ` Ian Molton
2003-01-05 23:09 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 0:55 ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04 2:22 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 3:18 ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04 3:18 ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-04 6:00 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04 7:34 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 7:45 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 8:36 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04 8:52 ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04 9:16 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 21:47 ` Roman Zippel
2003-01-05 11:15 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-04 1:19 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 1:32 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 2:22 ` venom
2003-01-05 9:38 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-01-05 21:33 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:10 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 22:22 ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 3:10 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04 23:44 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 0:17 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 4:39 ` Wolfgang Walter [this message]
2003-01-05 5:35 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-06 16:24 ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-06 22:04 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-07 0:08 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-07 15:53 ` Georg Nikodym
2003-01-07 18:05 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-05 21:46 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:06 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 21:17 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:44 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:45 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 23:03 ` Xavier Bestel
2003-01-05 23:40 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-03 10:39 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 11:29 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 11:33 ` ZHAO Wei
2003-01-03 14:52 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 15:03 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-01-03 20:30 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:27 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02 6:12 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02 6:26 ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02 8:51 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02 1:57 ` Alan Cox
2003-01-02 1:32 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 20:39 ` David Schwartz
[not found] <fa.ff58bdv.193ou06@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.glgbuvv.1m1g1he@ifi.uio.no>
2003-01-05 21:46 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? walt
2003-01-07 22:30 ` Adrian Bunk
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