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From: Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>
To: "Shane R. Stixrud" <shane@stixrud.org>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers?
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:16:00 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030104091600.GA8355@mark.mielke.cc> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0301040039100.13072-100000@master.geeklords.org>

On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 12:52:26AM -0800, Shane R. Stixrud wrote:
> Your position is based on the flawed assumption that the software world 
> will ever have enough functionality or run out of problems to solve.  Even 
> in the roofing analogy its not every house has the same roof. Software is 
> only going to get more complex not less.

My position is based on the observation that quite a significant
portion of features implemented for open source projects such as Linux
are provided by people that *cannot* directly benefit from the fruits
of their labour. Post a problem, or a bug report, and it is *likely*
that somebody will try to solve your problem, even if they do not have
your hardware, or their paying job does not relate to the open source
project at all.

It is based on good will, glory, thrill, enjoyment, distraction, and many
other benefits that do not put food on the table for your benefactor's
family.

This balance needs to be respected, not insulted. nVidia's driver is
not a patch to the roof of your house. nVidia's driver is software
that is released to allow Linux users the freedom to use nVidia
hardware. nVidia makes a lot more money from MSWIN32 users that it
does on Linux users. The software is protected either because nVidia
does not believe it is legal to distribute the source to their code,
or because they do not believe the benefits are worth the hassle. The
Linux community cannot lose something that it never had in the first
place.

Some people think that every company that needs an enhancement is
willing to pay people to enhance open source products, and that the
result will be returned to the public. The only real way that I can
see this working is if the Linux community as a whole created a
world-wide union that required all companies that wished to enhance
Linux would use to provide the enhancement. The pool of developers in
this union would be organized by knowledge and skill. The union
representantives would negotiate fair trades with companies,
encouraging companies to pool resources for features that are needed
by several companies.

Anything less is a little bit wishy washy. Maybe companies will pay
to have features implemented. Maybe companies will return the features
to the public. Maybe companies won't wait until somebody does it for
free. Maybe people who spend 37.5 hours a week working on Linux will
have food on the table for their family. Maybe a system exists. Maybe
companies know about the system.

Feeding ones family cannot be based on maybe.

mark

-- 
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                       and in the darkness bind them...

                           http://mark.mielke.cc/


  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-04  8:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 244+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-31  3:57 Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Hell.Surfers
2002-12-31  6:55 ` David Schwartz
2002-12-31 10:51 ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:05   ` Xavier Bestel
2002-12-31 12:19     ` John Bradford
2002-12-31 14:22       ` Jochen Friedrich
2002-12-31 14:31         ` John Bradford
2003-01-01 19:28           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 14:14     ` Andrew Walrond
2002-12-31 12:41 ` Andre Hedrick
2002-12-31 13:49   ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:26     ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 15:36       ` Mark Rutherford
2002-12-31 15:44         ` Paul Jakma
2002-12-31 17:05           ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-01 19:35           ` Måns Rullgård
2002-12-31 15:11   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2002-12-31 22:36   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-01 16:45 ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  0:31   ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:08     ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:29       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:21         ` David Lang
2003-01-02  1:38           ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  1:37     ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  2:57       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02  5:58         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  6:14           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03  4:06               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  5:00                 ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03  5:15                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03  8:31                   ` David S. Miller
2003-01-03  5:04                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03  5:12                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 12:16                     ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 12:51                       ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:42                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:46                           ` John Alvord
2003-01-03 14:48                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 16:13                             ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-03 16:58                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 14:04                                 ` Graham Murray
2003-01-05 22:37                                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  1:43                                     ` Ian Molton
2003-01-06  5:26                                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:44                                         ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-06 16:06                                           ` Mark Mielke
     [not found]                             ` <3E195A4B.B160B1D2@aitel.hist.no>
2003-01-06 11:23                               ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-07  9:08                                 ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-07 15:15                                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-08 10:06                                     ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-08 12:28                                       ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:33                                         ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 15:46                                           ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-08 15:46                                             ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-08 16:00                                               ` Mark Hounschell
2003-01-03 19:33                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 10:31                             ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-03 14:49                         ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 17:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 17:53                             ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 18:03                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:29                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  1:33                                 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 21:19                             ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:37                               ` Disconnect
2003-01-03 23:44                                 ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 21:52                               ` jw schultz
2003-01-04 15:41                               ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 13:53                             ` Daniel Egger
2003-01-03 16:16                         ` David Schwartz
2003-01-03 16:37                           ` Marco Monteiro
2003-01-03 18:38                         ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-03 19:02                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 19:10                           ` Ben Greear
2003-01-03 20:21                           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-04  1:51                           ` Alan Cox
2003-01-04  1:24                             ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-04  5:28                             ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04  8:06                               ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-04  8:21                                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03  6:04                 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03  6:29                   ` Brad Hards
2003-01-03  7:04                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 18:31                     ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  1:34                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 18:16                     ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 15:57                   ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-03 19:44                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 20:39                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:17                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04  6:55                   ` Bob Taylor
2003-01-04  9:06                     ` Vincent Bernat
2003-01-04 21:04                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 18:39                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04 22:06                 ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-04 22:23                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04 23:10                     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-05  0:00                     ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05  0:26                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  1:48                         ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-05 10:14                     ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 20:40                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 21:35                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:18                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:58                             ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-05 21:53                         ` Bruce Harada
2003-01-06 21:05                         ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-06 22:06                           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-05 18:34                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05 19:28                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-05 22:13                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06 17:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:29                           ` RIZEN
2003-01-07 13:39                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:31                           ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-06 17:39                           ` Bill Huey
2003-01-07 13:40                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:17                               ` Bill Huey
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 15:26                                   ` yodaiken
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:40                                       ` David D. Hagood
2003-01-10  0:02                                       ` yodaiken
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 18:10                                   ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-08  8:00                                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08  9:04                                   ` OT Naming. was: " Nils Petter Vaskinn
2003-01-08 11:23                                     ` Hacksaw
2003-01-08 12:09                                       ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-09  9:08                                         ` Hacksaw
2003-01-12 11:56                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:27                                       ` OT Naming. was: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closedsource drivers? Michael D. Shannon
2003-01-08 11:53                                   ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Bill Huey
2003-01-09 23:13                                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:19                                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  0:12                                       ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-10 10:51                                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10 15:36                                       ` Linux KERNEL mailinglist! Jan Harkes
2003-01-10 16:10                                       ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Jeff Randall
2003-01-12 11:54                                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 18:58                                           ` Jeff Randall
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14  5:47                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:37                                               ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 11:23                                                 ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-07 15:10                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-03  4:38               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 20:31                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:35                   ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-01-04 23:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 23:58                       ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  4:55                           ` Philip Wyett
2003-01-03 23:01                   ` Gauntlet Set NOW! Andre Hedrick
2003-01-03 23:56                     ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  7:12                       ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-04  9:14                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04  9:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04 10:01                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-04 19:31                               ` Matan Ziv-Av
2003-01-04 19:43                                 ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-06 10:56                               ` Helge Hafting
2003-01-04 23:44                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:22                         ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-05  5:33                           ` Milosz Tanski
2003-01-05  5:12                         ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05  5:31                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 10:47                             ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-05 15:29                               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  7:41                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-09  7:50                       ` Jeff Garzik
2003-01-09  8:08                       ` Andrew Morton
2003-01-09  8:57                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2003-01-09 23:06                         ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-03  7:51               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Mark Mielke
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:26                   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 21:27                     ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-05 21:24                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:08                         ` Eric Ortega
2003-01-05 22:34                         ` Ian Molton
2003-01-05 23:09                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-04  0:55                     ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  2:22                       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-04  3:18                         ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  3:18                           ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-04  6:00                       ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  7:34                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  7:45                           ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-04  8:36                           ` Werner Almesberger
2003-01-04  8:52                           ` Shane R. Stixrud
2003-01-04  9:16                             ` Mark Mielke [this message]
2003-01-04 21:47                     ` Roman Zippel
2003-01-05 11:15                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-01-04  1:19                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  1:32                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06  3:25                         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  2:22                       ` venom
2003-01-05  9:38                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-01-05 21:33                     ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:10                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-05 22:22                       ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-04  3:10                   ` David Schwartz
2003-01-04 23:44                     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-05  0:17                       ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05  4:39                         ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-05  5:35                           ` David Schwartz
2003-01-06 16:24                             ` Wolfgang Walter
2003-01-06 22:04                               ` David Schwartz
2003-01-07  0:08                                 ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-07 15:53                                 ` Georg Nikodym
2003-01-07 18:05                                   ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-05 21:46                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:06                             ` David Schwartz
2003-01-05 21:17                   ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 22:44                     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-05 22:45                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-05 23:03                         ` Xavier Bestel
2003-01-05 23:40                         ` Alan Cox
2003-01-03 10:39               ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Rik van Riel
2003-01-03 11:29                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 11:33                   ` ZHAO Wei
2003-01-03 14:52                 ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-03 15:03                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-01-03 20:30                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 22:27                   ` Rik van Riel
2003-01-02  6:12       ` Erik Andersen
2003-01-02  6:26         ` Bill Huey
2003-01-02  8:51         ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-02  1:57     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-02  1:32       ` Paul Jakma
2003-01-02 20:39     ` David Schwartz
     [not found] <fa.ff58bdv.193ou06@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.glgbuvv.1m1g1he@ifi.uio.no>
2003-01-05 21:46   ` Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in non-free drivers? walt
2003-01-07 22:30     ` Adrian Bunk

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