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From: Andi Kleen <ak@muc.de>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Andy Isaacson <adi@hexapodia.org>,
	"Richard F. Rebel" <rrebel@whenu.com>,
	Gabor MICSKO <gmicsko@szintezis.hu>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mpm@selenic.com, tytso@mit.edu
Subject: Re: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability
Date: 16 May 2005 13:04:00 +0200
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:03:59 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20050516110359.GA70871@muc.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1oebbwsrf.fsf@ebiederm.dsl.xmission.com>

> The only solution I have seen proposed so far that seems to work
> is to not schedule untrusted processes simultaneously with 
> the security code.  With the current API that sounds like
> a root process killing off, or at least stopping all non-root
> processes until the critical process has finished.

With virtualization and a hypervisor freely scheduling it is quite 
impossible to guarantee this. Of course as always the signal 
is quite noisy so it is unclear if it is exploitable in practical 
settings. On virtualized environments you cannot use ps to see
if a crypto process is running. 

> And those same processors will have the same problem if the share
> significant cpu resources.  Ideally the entire problem set
> would fit in the cache and the cpu designers would allow cache
> blocks to be locked but that is not currently the case.  So a shared
> L3 cache with dual core processors will have the same problem.

At some point the signal gets noisy enough and the assumptions
an attacker has to make too great for it being an useful attack.
For me it is not even clear it is a real attack on native Linux, at 
least the setup in the paper looked highly artifical and quite impractical. 
e.g. I suppose it would be quite difficult to really synchronize
to the beginning and end of the RSA encryptions on a server that
does other things too.

-Andi


  reply	other threads:[~2005-05-16 11:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 144+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-05-13  5:51 Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Gabor MICSKO
2005-05-13 12:47 ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 14:10   ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-13 14:23     ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2005-05-13 14:32       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-13 17:13         ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-13 18:30           ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-05-13 19:02             ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-15  9:31               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-05-13 17:14         ` Gabor MICSKO
2005-05-13 20:23     ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 18:03 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 18:34   ` Eric Rannaud
2005-05-13 18:35   ` Alan Cox
2005-05-13 18:49     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2005-05-13 19:08       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 19:36       ` Grant Coady
2005-05-16 17:00       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-16 12:37         ` Tommy Reynolds
2005-05-18 19:07     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-13 18:38   ` Richard F. Rebel
2005-05-13 19:05     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 21:26       ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-13 21:59         ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-13 22:47           ` Alan Cox
2005-05-13 23:00             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-13 23:27               ` Dave Jones
2005-05-13 23:38                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-13 23:44                   ` Dave Jones
2005-05-14  7:37                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 15:33                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-15  1:07                         ` Christer Weinigel
2005-05-15  9:48                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-14 15:23                   ` Alan Cox
2005-05-14 15:45                     ` andrea
2005-05-15 13:38                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16  7:06                         ` andrea
2005-05-14 16:30                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 16:44                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 17:56                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 18:01                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 19:21                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 19:48                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 23:40                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15  7:30                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15 20:41                                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-15 20:48                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15 21:10                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15 22:55                                           ` Dave Jones
2005-05-15 23:10                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-16  7:25                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15  9:37                                   ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15  3:19                                 ` dean gaudet
2005-05-15 10:01                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 10:23                               ` 2.6.4 timer and helper functions kernel
2005-05-19  0:38                                 ` George Anzinger
2005-05-15  9:33                           ` Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Adrian Bunk
2005-05-14 17:04                       ` Jindrich Makovicka
2005-05-14 18:27                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15  9:58                       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-14  0:39         ` dean gaudet
2005-05-16 13:41           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-15  9:43         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 18:42           ` David Schwartz
2005-05-15 18:56             ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2005-05-16  7:10           ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-05-16 11:04             ` Andi Kleen [this message]
2005-05-16 19:14               ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-05-16 20:05                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-15 14:00         ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:26         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 23:32       ` Paul Jakma
2005-05-14 16:29         ` Paul Jakma
2005-05-13 19:14     ` Jim Crilly
2005-05-13 20:18       ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 23:14         ` Jim Crilly
2005-05-13 19:16   ` Diego Calleja
2005-05-13 19:42     ` Frank Denis (Jedi/Sector One)
2005-05-15  9:54     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 13:51       ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:12         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 14:21           ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:52           ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-15 15:00             ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 15:21               ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-15 15:29                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-15 16:27                   ` Disk write cache Kenichi Okuyama
2005-05-15 16:43                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-15 16:50                       ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-15 16:56                       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 20:44                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-15 23:31                           ` Cache based insecurity/CPU cache/Disk Cache Tradeoffs Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-15 16:58                       ` Disk write cache Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 17:20                       ` Kenichi Okuyama
2005-05-16 11:02                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 11:12                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-16 11:29                           ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 14:02                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-16 14:48                               ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 15:06                                 ` Alan Cox
2005-05-16 15:40                                   ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 18:04                                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-16 19:11                                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity Florian Weimer
2005-05-29 21:02                                   ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Greg Stark
2005-05-29 21:16                                     ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-30  6:04                                       ` Greg Stark
2005-05-30  8:21                                         ` Matthias Andree
2005-06-01 19:02                                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity Bill Davidsen
2005-06-01 22:02                                         ` Matthias Andree
2005-06-02  0:12                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02  0:36                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-06-02  1:37                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02  1:54                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-06-02  8:53                                         ` Helge Hafting
2005-06-02 12:00                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02 13:33                                             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-06-04 13:37                                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-04 15:31                                                 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2005-05-16 14:57                           ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Alan Cox
2005-05-16 13:48                         ` Linux does not care for data integrity Mark Lord
2005-05-16 14:59                           ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16  1:56                   ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Gene Heskett
2005-05-16  2:11                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-16  2:24                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16  3:05                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-16  2:32                     ` Mark Lord
2005-05-16  3:08                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-16 13:44                         ` Mark Lord
2005-05-18  4:03                       ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-15 16:24                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16 11:18                   ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 14:33                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-16 15:26                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2005-05-16 16:00                         ` [OT] drive behavior on power-off (was: Disk write cache) Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 18:11                       ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-16 14:54                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-17 13:15                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-17 21:41                         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-18  4:06                     ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-15 21:38                 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-16 14:50               ` Alan Cox
2005-05-15 15:00             ` Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-13 22:51 linux
2005-05-14  8:03 ` Arjan van de Ven

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