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From: Matthias Andree <matthias.andree@gmx.de>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:18:59 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20050516111859.GB13387@merlin.emma.line.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0505151809240.26531@artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz>

On Sun, 15 May 2005, Mikulas Patocka wrote:

> Note that disk can still ignore FLUSH CACHE command cached data are small
> enough to be written on power loss, so small FLUSH CACHE time doesn't
> prove disk cheating.

Have you seen a drive yet that writes back blocks after power loss?

I have heard rumors about this, but all OEM manuals I looked at for
drives I bought or recommended simply stated that the block currently
being written at power loss can become damaged (with write cache off),
and that the drive can lose the full write cache at power loss (with
write cache on) so this looks like daydreaming manifested as rumor.

I've heard that drives would be taking rotational energy from their
rotating platters and such, but never heard how the hardware compensates
the dilation with decreasing rotational frequency, which also requires
changed filter settings for the write channel, block encoding, delays,
possibly stepping the heads and so on. I don't believe these stories
until I see evidence.

These are corner cases that a vendor would hardly optimize for.
If you know a disk drive (not battery-backed disk controller!) that
flashes its cache to NVRAM, or uses rotational energy to save its cache
on the platters, please name brand and model and where I can download
the material that documents this behavior.

  reply	other threads:[~2005-05-16 11:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-05-13  5:51 Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Gabor MICSKO
2005-05-13 12:47 ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 14:10   ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-13 14:23     ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2005-05-13 14:32       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-13 17:13         ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-13 18:30           ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-05-13 19:02             ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-15  9:31               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-05-13 17:14         ` Gabor MICSKO
2005-05-13 20:23     ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 18:03 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 18:34   ` Eric Rannaud
2005-05-13 18:35   ` Alan Cox
2005-05-13 18:49     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2005-05-13 19:08       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 19:36       ` Grant Coady
2005-05-16 17:00       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-16 12:37         ` Tommy Reynolds
2005-05-18 19:07     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-13 18:38   ` Richard F. Rebel
2005-05-13 19:05     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 21:26       ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-13 21:59         ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-13 22:47           ` Alan Cox
2005-05-13 23:00             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-13 23:27               ` Dave Jones
2005-05-13 23:38                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-13 23:44                   ` Dave Jones
2005-05-14  7:37                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 15:33                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-15  1:07                         ` Christer Weinigel
2005-05-15  9:48                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-14 15:23                   ` Alan Cox
2005-05-14 15:45                     ` andrea
2005-05-15 13:38                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16  7:06                         ` andrea
2005-05-14 16:30                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 16:44                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 17:56                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 18:01                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 19:21                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 19:48                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 23:40                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15  7:30                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15 20:41                                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-15 20:48                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15 21:10                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15 22:55                                           ` Dave Jones
2005-05-15 23:10                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-16  7:25                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15  9:37                                   ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15  3:19                                 ` dean gaudet
2005-05-15 10:01                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 10:23                               ` 2.6.4 timer and helper functions kernel
2005-05-19  0:38                                 ` George Anzinger
2005-05-15  9:33                           ` Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Adrian Bunk
2005-05-14 17:04                       ` Jindrich Makovicka
2005-05-14 18:27                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15  9:58                       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-14  0:39         ` dean gaudet
2005-05-16 13:41           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-15  9:43         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 18:42           ` David Schwartz
2005-05-15 18:56             ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2005-05-16  7:10           ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-05-16 11:04             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-16 19:14               ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-05-16 20:05                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-15 14:00         ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:26         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 23:32       ` Paul Jakma
2005-05-14 16:29         ` Paul Jakma
2005-05-13 19:14     ` Jim Crilly
2005-05-13 20:18       ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 23:14         ` Jim Crilly
2005-05-13 19:16   ` Diego Calleja
2005-05-13 19:42     ` Frank Denis (Jedi/Sector One)
2005-05-15  9:54     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 13:51       ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:12         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 14:21           ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:52           ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-15 15:00             ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 15:21               ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-15 15:29                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-15 16:27                   ` Disk write cache Kenichi Okuyama
2005-05-15 16:43                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-15 16:50                       ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-15 16:56                       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 20:44                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-15 23:31                           ` Cache based insecurity/CPU cache/Disk Cache Tradeoffs Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-15 16:58                       ` Disk write cache Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 17:20                       ` Kenichi Okuyama
2005-05-16 11:02                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 11:12                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-16 11:29                           ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 14:02                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-16 14:48                               ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 15:06                                 ` Alan Cox
2005-05-16 15:40                                   ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 18:04                                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-16 19:11                                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity Florian Weimer
2005-05-29 21:02                                   ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Greg Stark
2005-05-29 21:16                                     ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-30  6:04                                       ` Greg Stark
2005-05-30  8:21                                         ` Matthias Andree
2005-06-01 19:02                                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity Bill Davidsen
2005-06-01 22:02                                         ` Matthias Andree
2005-06-02  0:12                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02  0:36                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-06-02  1:37                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02  1:54                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-06-02  8:53                                         ` Helge Hafting
2005-06-02 12:00                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02 13:33                                             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-06-04 13:37                                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-04 15:31                                                 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2005-05-16 14:57                           ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Alan Cox
2005-05-16 13:48                         ` Linux does not care for data integrity Mark Lord
2005-05-16 14:59                           ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16  1:56                   ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Gene Heskett
2005-05-16  2:11                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-16  2:24                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16  3:05                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-16  2:32                     ` Mark Lord
2005-05-16  3:08                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-16 13:44                         ` Mark Lord
2005-05-18  4:03                       ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-15 16:24                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16 11:18                   ` Matthias Andree [this message]
2005-05-16 14:33                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-16 15:26                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2005-05-16 16:00                         ` [OT] drive behavior on power-off (was: Disk write cache) Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 18:11                       ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-16 14:54                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-17 13:15                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-17 21:41                         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-18  4:06                     ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-15 21:38                 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-16 14:50               ` Alan Cox
2005-05-15 15:00             ` Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Arjan van de Ven
     [not found] <43Bnu-Ut-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <44sLm-3Mg-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <44sUX-42h-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <44teb-4fb-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <44uaj-4Z3-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <44LXu-2W6-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]           ` <44OVj-5xS-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]             ` <44PRr-6mz-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-05-17  3:29               ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Robert Hancock
2005-05-18  4:11                 ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-18  7:16 Paul Zimmerman
2005-05-18 11:10 ` Richard B. Johnson
2005-05-18 12:47 ` Stephan Wonczak
2005-05-18  9:45 Lincoln Dale (ltd)
2005-05-18 13:48 ` John Stoffel
2005-05-18 22:11 Lincoln Dale (ltd)

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