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From: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@suse.de>
To: dean gaudet <dean-list-linux-kernel@arctic.org>
Cc: Andy Isaacson <adi@hexapodia.org>, Andi Kleen <ak@muc.de>,
	"Richard F. Rebel" <rrebel@whenu.com>,
	Gabor MICSKO <gmicsko@szintezis.hu>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mpm@selenic.com, tytso@mit.edu
Subject: Re: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:41:14 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20050516134114.GH26073@g5.random> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0505131701450.31431@twinlark.arctic.org>

On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 05:39:25PM -0700, dean gaudet wrote:
> same cache index -- and get an 8-fold reduction in exposure.  the trick 
> here is the L2 is physically indexed, and userland code can perform only 
> virtual allocations.  but it's not too hard to discover physical conflicts 
> if you really want to (using rdtsc) -- it would be done early in the 
> initialization of the program because it involves asking for enough memory 
> until the kernel gives you enough colliding pages.  (a system call could 
> help with this if we really wanted it.)

A 8-way set associative 1M cache is guaranteed to go at l2 speed only
up to 128K (no matter what the kernel does), but even if the secret
payload is larger than 128K as long as the load is still distributed
evenly at each pass for each page, there's not going to be any covert
channel, simply the process will run slower than it could if it had a
better page coloring.

So I don't see the need of kernel support, all it needs to do is to know
the page size, and that's provided to userland already.

  reply	other threads:[~2005-05-16 13:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 144+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-05-13  5:51 Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Gabor MICSKO
2005-05-13 12:47 ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 14:10   ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-13 14:23     ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2005-05-13 14:32       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-13 17:13         ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-13 18:30           ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-05-13 19:02             ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-15  9:31               ` Adrian Bunk
2005-05-13 17:14         ` Gabor MICSKO
2005-05-13 20:23     ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 18:03 ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 18:34   ` Eric Rannaud
2005-05-13 18:35   ` Alan Cox
2005-05-13 18:49     ` Scott Robert Ladd
2005-05-13 19:08       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 19:36       ` Grant Coady
2005-05-16 17:00       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-16 12:37         ` Tommy Reynolds
2005-05-18 19:07     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-13 18:38   ` Richard F. Rebel
2005-05-13 19:05     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 21:26       ` Andy Isaacson
2005-05-13 21:59         ` Matt Mackall
2005-05-13 22:47           ` Alan Cox
2005-05-13 23:00             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-13 23:27               ` Dave Jones
2005-05-13 23:38                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-13 23:44                   ` Dave Jones
2005-05-14  7:37                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 15:33                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2005-05-15  1:07                         ` Christer Weinigel
2005-05-15  9:48                         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-14 15:23                   ` Alan Cox
2005-05-14 15:45                     ` andrea
2005-05-15 13:38                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16  7:06                         ` andrea
2005-05-14 16:30                     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 16:44                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 17:56                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 18:01                           ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 19:21                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-14 19:48                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-14 23:40                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15  7:30                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15 20:41                                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-15 20:48                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15 21:10                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15 22:55                                           ` Dave Jones
2005-05-15 23:10                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-16  7:25                                               ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-15  9:37                                   ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15  3:19                                 ` dean gaudet
2005-05-15 10:01                             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 10:23                               ` 2.6.4 timer and helper functions kernel
2005-05-19  0:38                                 ` George Anzinger
2005-05-15  9:33                           ` Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Adrian Bunk
2005-05-14 17:04                       ` Jindrich Makovicka
2005-05-14 18:27                         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-15  9:58                       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-14  0:39         ` dean gaudet
2005-05-16 13:41           ` Andrea Arcangeli [this message]
2005-05-15  9:43         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 18:42           ` David Schwartz
2005-05-15 18:56             ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2005-05-16  7:10           ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-05-16 11:04             ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-16 19:14               ` Eric W. Biederman
2005-05-16 20:05                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-15 14:00         ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:26         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-13 23:32       ` Paul Jakma
2005-05-14 16:29         ` Paul Jakma
2005-05-13 19:14     ` Jim Crilly
2005-05-13 20:18       ` Barry K. Nathan
2005-05-13 23:14         ` Jim Crilly
2005-05-13 19:16   ` Diego Calleja
2005-05-13 19:42     ` Frank Denis (Jedi/Sector One)
2005-05-15  9:54     ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 13:51       ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:12         ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 14:21           ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 14:52           ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-15 15:00             ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 15:21               ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-15 15:29                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-15 16:27                   ` Disk write cache Kenichi Okuyama
2005-05-15 16:43                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-15 16:50                       ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-15 16:56                       ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-15 20:44                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-15 23:31                           ` Cache based insecurity/CPU cache/Disk Cache Tradeoffs Brian O'Mahoney
2005-05-15 16:58                       ` Disk write cache Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-15 17:20                       ` Kenichi Okuyama
2005-05-16 11:02                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 11:12                         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-16 11:29                           ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 14:02                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-16 14:48                               ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 15:06                                 ` Alan Cox
2005-05-16 15:40                                   ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 18:04                                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-16 19:11                                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity Florian Weimer
2005-05-29 21:02                                   ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Greg Stark
2005-05-29 21:16                                     ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-30  6:04                                       ` Greg Stark
2005-05-30  8:21                                         ` Matthias Andree
2005-06-01 19:02                                       ` Linux does not care for data integrity Bill Davidsen
2005-06-01 22:02                                         ` Matthias Andree
2005-06-02  0:12                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02  0:36                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-06-02  1:37                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02  1:54                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-06-02  8:53                                         ` Helge Hafting
2005-06-02 12:00                                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-02 13:33                                             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-06-04 13:37                                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-06-04 15:31                                                 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2005-05-16 14:57                           ` Linux does not care for data integrity (was: Disk write cache) Alan Cox
2005-05-16 13:48                         ` Linux does not care for data integrity Mark Lord
2005-05-16 14:59                           ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16  1:56                   ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Gene Heskett
2005-05-16  2:11                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-16  2:24                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16  3:05                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-16  2:32                     ` Mark Lord
2005-05-16  3:08                       ` Gene Heskett
2005-05-16 13:44                         ` Mark Lord
2005-05-18  4:03                       ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-15 16:24                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2005-05-16 11:18                   ` Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 14:33                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-05-16 15:26                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2005-05-16 16:00                         ` [OT] drive behavior on power-off (was: Disk write cache) Matthias Andree
2005-05-16 18:11                       ` Disk write cache (Was: Hyper-Threading Vulnerability) Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-16 14:54                     ` Alan Cox
2005-05-17 13:15                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-05-17 21:41                         ` Kyle Moffett
2005-05-18  4:06                     ` Eric D. Mudama
2005-05-15 21:38                 ` Tomasz Torcz
2005-05-16 14:50               ` Alan Cox
2005-05-15 15:00             ` Hyper-Threading Vulnerability Arjan van de Ven
2005-05-13 22:51 linux
2005-05-14  8:03 ` Arjan van de Ven

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