From: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: J??rn Engel <joern@logfs.org>, Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
linux-mm@kvack.org,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
miklos@szeredi.hu, akpm@linux-foundation.org, neilb@suse.de,
dgc@sgi.com, tomoki.sekiyama.qu@hitachi.com,
nikita@clusterfs.com, trond.myklebust@fys.uio.no,
yingchao.zhou@gmail.com, richard@rsk.demon.co.uk, david@lang.hm
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/23] per device dirty throttling -v8
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:43:28 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070805134328.1a4474dd@the-village.bc.nu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070805073709.GA6325@elte.hu>
> you try to put the blame into distribution makers' shoes but in reality,
> had the kernel stepped forward with a neat .config option sooner
> (combined with a neat boot option as well to turn it off), we'd have had
> noatime systems 10 years ago. A new entry into relnotes and done. It's
Sorry Ingo, having been in the distribution business for over ten years I
have to disagree. Kernel options that magically totally change the kernel
API and behaviour are exactly what a vendor does *NOT* want to have.
> Distro makers did not dare to do this sooner because some kernel
> developers came forward with these mostly bogus arguments ... The impact
> of atime is far better understood by the kernel community, so it is the
> responsibility of _us_ to signal such things towards distributors, not
> the other way around.
You are trying to put a bogus divide between kernel community and
developer community. Yet you know perfectly well that a large part of the
kernel community yourself included work for distribution vendors and are
actively building the distribution kernels.
You are perfectly positioned to provide timing examples to the Fedora
development team and make the case for FC8 beta going out that way. You
are perfectly able to propose, build and submit a FC7 extras package of
tuning which people can try in the meantime, but you haven't do so.
Other people in this discussion can do likewise for Debian, SuSE etc.
Your argument appears to be "I can't be bothered to use the due processes
of the distribution but I can do it quickly with an ugly kernel hack".
That is not the right approach. Propose it with your presented numbers to
fedora-devel and I'll be happy to back up such a proposal for the next FC
as will many other kernel folk I'm sure.
Heck, go write a piece for LWN with the benchmark numbers and how to
change your atime options. You'll make Jon happy and lots of folks read
it and will give feedback on improvements as a result.
Alan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-08-05 12:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 189+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-08-03 12:37 [PATCH 00/23] per device dirty throttling -v8 Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 01/23] nfs: remove congestion_end() Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 02/23] lib: percpu_counter_add Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 03/23] lib: percpu_counter variable batch Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 04/23] lib: make percpu_counter_add take s64 Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 05/23] lib: percpu_counter_set Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 06/23] lib: percpu_counter_sum_positive Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 07/23] lib: percpu_count_sum() Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 08/23] lib: percpu_counter_init error handling Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 09/23] lib: percpu_counter_init_irq Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 10/23] mm: bdi init hooks Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 11/23] containers: " Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 12/23] mtd: " Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 13/23] mtd: clean up the backing_dev_info usage Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 14/23] mtd: give mtdconcat devices their own backing_dev_info Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 15/23] mm: scalable bdi statistics counters Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 16/23] mm: count reclaimable pages per BDI Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 17/23] mm: count writeback " Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-09 19:15 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-09 19:23 ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-09 19:27 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-13 8:36 ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 18/23] mm: expose BDI statistics in sysfs Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 19/23] lib: floating proportions Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 20/23] lib: floating proportions _single Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 21/23] mm: per device dirty threshold Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 22/23] mm: dirty balancing for tasks Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 12:37 ` [PATCH 23/23] debug: sysfs files for the current ratio/size/total Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-03 22:21 ` [PATCH 00/23] per device dirty throttling -v8 Linus Torvalds
2007-08-04 6:32 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 7:07 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 7:44 ` david
2007-08-04 16:01 ` Ray Lee
2007-08-04 17:15 ` david
2007-08-09 5:11 ` david
2007-08-04 10:33 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 16:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-08-04 16:37 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 16:51 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-04 16:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 20:23 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-04 17:02 ` Diego Calleja
2007-08-04 17:17 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 17:38 ` Diego Calleja
2007-08-04 17:51 ` Diego Calleja
2007-08-08 10:43 ` Karel Zak
2007-08-04 17:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-08-04 18:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-04 19:12 ` Jörn Engel
2007-08-04 19:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 19:26 ` Jörn Engel
2007-08-04 19:42 ` Jörn Engel
2007-08-05 20:36 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-08-06 18:03 ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-08-06 18:53 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-06 19:37 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-06 19:46 ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-08-07 7:05 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-08 21:10 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-08-08 21:21 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-09 0:54 ` Martin Bligh
2007-08-11 23:14 ` Valerie Henson
2007-08-10 0:21 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-14 9:57 ` Helge Hafting
2007-08-04 19:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-08-04 19:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-08-04 20:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 20:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 20:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-05 8:18 ` [patch] add noatime/atime boot options, CONFIG_DEFAULT_NOATIME Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 20:13 ` [PATCH 00/23] per device dirty throttling -v8 Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-04 21:48 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-05 18:01 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-05 20:34 ` Christoph Hellwig
[not found] ` <fa.7rstQpXif2z9y2n2HD+qxLFnueg@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.6VOZrceT65Vh8CIRIta0zSg2V38@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.xcZCTa5cHDOhrcyXZ2gZbzbu7g0@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.JjZwG90x+07YaOx8h5VLN+9AL/8@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.V9U4mAEXVjNqblhzu7GRmxif7Uw@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.uq0BQtrgp66a08hpsF+vrqXUNC4@ifi.uio.no>
2007-08-15 18:16 ` david.balazic
2007-08-04 20:11 ` [PATCH 00/23] " Alan Cox
2007-08-04 20:28 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-04 21:47 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-04 23:51 ` Claudio Martins
2007-08-05 0:49 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 7:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 10:29 ` Jakob Oestergaard
2007-08-05 12:46 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 12:58 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 13:29 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-08-06 6:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-06 13:12 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-08-05 14:46 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-05 17:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 17:59 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-05 18:09 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 18:08 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-07 21:20 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-05 7:18 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-07 18:55 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-07 19:35 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-08 17:44 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-04 20:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 20:34 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-04 21:03 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-04 21:51 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 7:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 7:29 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-05 7:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 8:53 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-08-05 14:17 ` Jörn Engel
2007-08-05 18:02 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-05 18:37 ` Jörn Engel
2007-08-05 20:21 ` Jörn Engel
2007-08-05 20:33 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-05 12:47 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 12:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 18:44 ` Dave Jones
2007-08-05 18:58 ` adi
2007-08-06 6:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-06 15:59 ` Dave Jones
2007-08-06 16:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 7:37 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 9:04 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-05 12:43 ` Alan Cox [this message]
2007-08-05 12:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 13:37 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 18:08 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 19:11 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-08 18:22 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-08 19:39 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-08 20:31 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-08 23:18 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-07 19:09 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-04 21:48 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 7:13 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 13:22 ` Diego Calleja
2007-08-05 19:03 ` david
2007-08-06 6:52 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-10 4:04 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-11 5:19 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-08-06 6:58 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-09 0:57 ` Greg Trounson
2007-08-09 1:26 ` david
2007-08-09 2:33 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-04 22:39 ` Ilpo Järvinen
2007-08-05 10:20 ` Jakob Oestergaard
2007-08-05 10:42 ` Jeff Garzik
2007-08-05 10:58 ` Jakob Oestergaard
2007-08-05 12:46 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 13:46 ` Jakob Oestergaard
2007-08-05 16:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-08-05 19:09 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 19:22 ` [patch] implement smarter atime updates support Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 19:28 ` [patch] implement smarter atime updates support, v2 Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 20:42 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-06 5:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 19:53 ` [patch] implement smarter atime updates support Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-05 20:04 ` Alan Cox
2007-08-05 20:22 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-08-05 19:29 ` [PATCH 00/23] per device dirty throttling -v8 Alan Cox
2007-08-05 19:32 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-08-05 23:43 ` David Chinner
2007-08-05 0:26 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-05 15:00 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-06 13:47 ` Chris Mason
2007-08-17 0:45 ` Dave Jones
2007-08-05 20:41 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-08-06 10:42 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-16 10:18 ` Helge Hafting
2007-08-09 6:25 ` Lionel Elie Mamane
2007-08-09 15:02 ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-08-09 16:22 ` Diego Calleja
2007-08-04 16:41 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-04 17:26 ` Nikita Danilov
2007-08-04 19:16 ` Florian Weimer
2007-08-05 6:00 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-05 7:57 ` Florian Weimer
2007-08-05 20:43 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-08-05 22:46 ` Theodore Tso
2007-08-06 0:24 ` David Chinner
2007-08-05 0:28 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-04 16:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-08-05 17:22 ` Brice Figureau
2007-08-05 22:17 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 8:40 ` Brice Figureau
2007-08-14 1:44 ` Stewart Smith
2007-08-14 2:25 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-14 7:59 ` Brice Figureau
2007-08-06 20:26 ` Miklos Szeredi
2007-08-08 12:25 ` richard kennedy
2007-08-08 13:54 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-10 4:17 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-08-10 16:00 pointman
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20070805134328.1a4474dd@the-village.bc.nu \
--to=alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk \
--cc=a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl \
--cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
--cc=david@lang.hm \
--cc=dgc@sgi.com \
--cc=jeff@garzik.org \
--cc=joern@logfs.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-mm@kvack.org \
--cc=miklos@szeredi.hu \
--cc=mingo@elte.hu \
--cc=neilb@suse.de \
--cc=nikita@clusterfs.com \
--cc=richard@rsk.demon.co.uk \
--cc=tomoki.sekiyama.qu@hitachi.com \
--cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
--cc=trond.myklebust@fys.uio.no \
--cc=yingchao.zhou@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).