From: zhanghailiang <zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com>
To: Andres Lagar-Cavilla <andreslc@google.com>
Cc: Peter Feiner <pfeiner@google.com>,
Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>, <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>,
<kvm@vger.kernel.org>, <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Dave Hansen <dave@sr71.net>, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Sasha Levin <sasha.levin@oracle.com>,
"Hugh Dickins" <hughd@google.com>,
"Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>,
Christopher Covington <cov@codeaurora.org>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
Android Kernel Team <kernel-team@android.com>,
"Robert Love" <rlove@google.com>,
Dmitry Adamushko <dmitry.adamushko@gmail.com>,
"Neil Brown" <neilb@suse.de>, Mike Hommey <mh@glandium.org>,
Taras Glek <tglek@mozilla.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@gmail.com>,
Michel Lespinasse <walken@google.com>,
"Minchan Kim" <minchan@kernel.org>,
Keith Packard <keithp@keithp.com>,
"Huangpeng (Peter)" <peter.huangpeng@huawei.com>,
Isaku Yamahata <yamahata@valinux.co.jp>,
Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
"Stefan Hajnoczi" <stefanha@gmail.com>,
Wenchao Xia <wenchaoqemu@gmail.com>,
"Andrew Jones" <drjones@redhat.com>,
Juan Quintela <quintela@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/17] RFC: userfault v2
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:11:24 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <5453442C.6050205@huawei.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJu=L59XOFkNgrOA3MPoL2q4y_b7SRP84PdX_Wn63x4xRwCS_w@mail.gmail.com>
On 2014/10/31 13:17, Andres Lagar-Cavilla wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:38 PM, zhanghailiang
> <zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com> wrote:
>> On 2014/10/31 11:29, zhanghailiang wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2014/10/31 10:23, Peter Feiner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 07:31:48PM +0800, zhanghailiang wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2014/10/30 1:46, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 05:32:51PM +0800, zhanghailiang wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to confirm a question:
>>>>>>> Can we support distinguishing between writing and reading memory for
>>>>>>> userfault?
>>>>>>> That is, we can decide whether writing a page, reading a page or both
>>>>>>> trigger userfault.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mail is going to be long enough already so I'll just assume tracking
>>>>>> dirty memory in userland (instead of doing it in kernel) is worthy
>>>>>> feature to have here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll open that can of worms :-)
>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> Er, maybe i didn't describe clearly. What i really need for live memory
>>>>> snapshot
>>>>> is only wrprotect fault, like kvm's dirty tracing mechanism, *only
>>>>> tracing write action*.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what i need for userfault is supporting only wrprotect fault. i
>>>>> don't
>>>>> want to get notification for non present reading faults, it will
>>>>> influence
>>>>> VM's performance and the efficiency of doing snapshot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given that you do care about performance Zhanghailiang, I don't think
>>>> that a
>>>> userfault handler is a good place to track dirty memory. Every dirtying
>>>> write
>>>> will block on the userfault handler, which is an expensively slow
>>>> proposition
>>>> compared to an in-kernel approach.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed, but for doing live memory snapshot (VM is running when do
>>> snapsphot),
>>> we have to do this (block the write action), because we have to save the
>>> page before it
>>> is dirtied by writing action. This is the difference, compared to pre-copy
>>> migration.
>>>
>>
>> Again;) For snapshot, i don't use its dirty tracing ability, i just use it
>> to block write action,
>> and save page, and then i will remove its write protect.
>
> You could do a CoW in the kernel, post a notification, keep going, and
> expose an interface for user-space to mmap the preserved copy. Getting
> the life-cycle of the preserved page(s) right is tricky, but doable.
> Anyway, it's easy to hand-wave without knowing your specific
> requirements.
>
Yes, what i need is very much like user-space COW feature, but i don't want to modify
any code of kvm to relize COW, usefault is a more generic way and more grace.
Besides, I'm not an expert in kernel:(
> Opening the discussion a bit, this does look similar to the xen-access
> interface, in which a xen domain vcpu could be stopped in its tracks
Right;)
> while user-space was notified (and acknowledged) a variety of
> scenarios: page was written to, page was read from, vcpu is attempting
> to execute from page, etc. Very applicable to anti-viruses right away,
> for example you can enforce W^X properties on pages.
>
> I don't know that Andrea wants to open the game so broadly for
> userfault, and the code right now is very specific to triggering on
> pte_none(), but that's a nice reward down this road.
>
I hope he will consider it. IMHO, it is a good extension for userfault
(write fault);)
Best Regards,
zhanghailiang
>>
>>>>> Also, i think this feature will benefit for migration of ivshmem and
>>>>> vhost-scsi
>>>>> which have no dirty-page-tracing now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do agree wholeheartedly with you here. Manually tracking non-guest
>>>> writes
>>>> adds to the complexity of device emulation code. A central fault-driven
>>>> means
>>>> for dirty tracking writes from the guest and host would be a welcome
>>>> simplification to implementing pre-copy migration. Indeed, that's exactly
>>>> what
>>>> I'm working on! I'm using the softdirty bit, which was introduced
>>>> recently for
>>>> CRIU migration, to replace the use of KVM's dirty logging and manual
>>>> dirty
>>>> tracking by the VMM during pre-copy migration. See
>>>
>>>
>>> Great! Do you plan to issue your patches to community? I mean is your work
>>> based on
>>> qemu? or an independent tool (CRIU migration?) for live-migration?
>>> Maybe i could fix the migration problem for ivshmem in qemu now,
>>> based on softdirty mechanism.
>>>
>>>> Documentation/vm/soft-dirty.txt and pagemap.txt in case you aren't
>>>> familiar. To
>>>
>>>
>>> I have read them cursorily, it is useful for pre-copy indeed. But it seems
>>> that
>>> it can not meet my need for snapshot.
>>>
>>>> make softdirty usable for live migration, I've added an API to atomically
>>>> test-and-clear the bit and write protect the page.
>>>
>>>
>>> How can i find the API? Is it been merged in kernel's master branch
>>> already?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> zhanghailiang
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe kvm" in
>>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>>> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>> .
>>>
>>
>
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-10-31 8:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-10-03 17:07 [PATCH 00/17] RFC: userfault v2 Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 01/17] mm: gup: add FOLL_TRIED Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 18:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-03 20:55 ` Paolo Bonzini
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 02/17] mm: gup: add get_user_pages_locked and get_user_pages_unlocked Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 03/17] mm: gup: use get_user_pages_unlocked within get_user_pages_fast Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 04/17] mm: gup: make get_user_pages_fast and __get_user_pages_fast latency conscious Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 18:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-06 14:14 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 05/17] mm: gup: use get_user_pages_fast and get_user_pages_unlocked Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 06/17] kvm: Faults which trigger IO release the mmap_sem Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 07/17] mm: madvise MADV_USERFAULT: prepare vm_flags to allow more than 32bits Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 9:03 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-11-06 20:08 ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 08/17] mm: madvise MADV_USERFAULT Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 23:13 ` Mike Hommey
2014-10-06 17:24 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 10:36 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 10:46 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 10:52 ` [Qemu-devel] " Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 11:01 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 11:30 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 13:24 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 15:21 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 09/17] mm: PT lock: export double_pt_lock/unlock Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 10/17] mm: rmap preparation for remap_anon_pages Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 18:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-06 8:55 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-06 16:41 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 12:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-07 14:19 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 15:52 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 15:54 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 16:13 ` Peter Feiner
2014-10-07 16:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-07 17:07 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 17:14 ` Paolo Bonzini
2014-10-07 17:25 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 11:10 ` [Qemu-devel] " Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 13:37 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 11/17] mm: swp_entry_swapcount Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 12/17] mm: sys_remap_anon_pages Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-04 13:13 ` Andi Kleen
2014-10-06 17:00 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 13/17] waitqueue: add nr wake parameter to __wake_up_locked_key Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 14/17] userfaultfd: add new syscall to provide memory externalization Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 15/17] userfaultfd: make userfaultfd_write non blocking Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 16/17] powerpc: add remap_anon_pages and userfaultfd Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 17/17] userfaultfd: implement USERFAULTFD_RANGE_REGISTER|UNREGISTER Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-27 9:32 ` [PATCH 00/17] RFC: userfault v2 zhanghailiang
2014-10-29 17:46 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-29 17:56 ` [Qemu-devel] " Peter Maydell
2014-11-21 20:14 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-21 23:05 ` Peter Maydell
2014-11-25 19:45 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-30 11:31 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-30 12:49 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-31 1:26 ` zhanghailiang
2014-11-19 18:49 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-20 2:54 ` zhanghailiang
2014-11-20 17:38 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-21 7:19 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 2:23 ` Peter Feiner
2014-10-31 3:29 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 4:38 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 5:17 ` Andres Lagar-Cavilla
2014-10-31 8:11 ` zhanghailiang [this message]
2014-10-31 19:39 ` Peter Feiner
2014-11-01 8:48 ` zhanghailiang
2014-11-20 17:29 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-12 7:18 ` zhanghailiang
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