From: Andres Lagar-Cavilla <andreslc@google.com>
To: zhanghailiang <zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com>
Cc: Peter Feiner <pfeiner@google.com>,
Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
qemu-devel@nongnu.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Dave Hansen <dave@sr71.net>,
Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Sasha Levin <sasha.levin@oracle.com>,
Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
"Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@redhat.com>,
Christopher Covington <cov@codeaurora.org>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
Android Kernel Team <kernel-team@android.com>,
Robert Love <rlove@google.com>,
Dmitry Adamushko <dmitry.adamushko@gmail.com>,
Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>, Mike Hommey <mh@glandium.org>,
Taras Glek <tglek@mozilla.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@gmail.com>,
Michel Lespinasse <walken@google.com>,
Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>,
Keith Packard <keithp@keithp.com>,
"Huangpeng (Peter)" <peter.huangpeng@huawei.com>,
Isaku Yamahata <yamahata@valinux.co.jp>,
Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@gmail.com>,
Wenchao Xia <wenchaoqemu@gmail.com>,
Andrew Jones <drjones@redhat.com>,
Juan Quintela <quintela@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/17] RFC: userfault v2
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:17:47 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAJu=L59XOFkNgrOA3MPoL2q4y_b7SRP84PdX_Wn63x4xRwCS_w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <54531258.1060908@huawei.com>
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:38 PM, zhanghailiang
<zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com> wrote:
> On 2014/10/31 11:29, zhanghailiang wrote:
>>
>> On 2014/10/31 10:23, Peter Feiner wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 07:31:48PM +0800, zhanghailiang wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2014/10/30 1:46, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 05:32:51PM +0800, zhanghailiang wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to confirm a question:
>>>>>> Can we support distinguishing between writing and reading memory for
>>>>>> userfault?
>>>>>> That is, we can decide whether writing a page, reading a page or both
>>>>>> trigger userfault.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mail is going to be long enough already so I'll just assume tracking
>>>>> dirty memory in userland (instead of doing it in kernel) is worthy
>>>>> feature to have here.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll open that can of worms :-)
>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>> Er, maybe i didn't describe clearly. What i really need for live memory
>>>> snapshot
>>>> is only wrprotect fault, like kvm's dirty tracing mechanism, *only
>>>> tracing write action*.
>>>>
>>>> So, what i need for userfault is supporting only wrprotect fault. i
>>>> don't
>>>> want to get notification for non present reading faults, it will
>>>> influence
>>>> VM's performance and the efficiency of doing snapshot.
>>>
>>>
>>> Given that you do care about performance Zhanghailiang, I don't think
>>> that a
>>> userfault handler is a good place to track dirty memory. Every dirtying
>>> write
>>> will block on the userfault handler, which is an expensively slow
>>> proposition
>>> compared to an in-kernel approach.
>>>
>>
>> Agreed, but for doing live memory snapshot (VM is running when do
>> snapsphot),
>> we have to do this (block the write action), because we have to save the
>> page before it
>> is dirtied by writing action. This is the difference, compared to pre-copy
>> migration.
>>
>
> Again;) For snapshot, i don't use its dirty tracing ability, i just use it
> to block write action,
> and save page, and then i will remove its write protect.
You could do a CoW in the kernel, post a notification, keep going, and
expose an interface for user-space to mmap the preserved copy. Getting
the life-cycle of the preserved page(s) right is tricky, but doable.
Anyway, it's easy to hand-wave without knowing your specific
requirements.
Opening the discussion a bit, this does look similar to the xen-access
interface, in which a xen domain vcpu could be stopped in its tracks
while user-space was notified (and acknowledged) a variety of
scenarios: page was written to, page was read from, vcpu is attempting
to execute from page, etc. Very applicable to anti-viruses right away,
for example you can enforce W^X properties on pages.
I don't know that Andrea wants to open the game so broadly for
userfault, and the code right now is very specific to triggering on
pte_none(), but that's a nice reward down this road.
Andres
>
>>>> Also, i think this feature will benefit for migration of ivshmem and
>>>> vhost-scsi
>>>> which have no dirty-page-tracing now.
>>>
>>>
>>> I do agree wholeheartedly with you here. Manually tracking non-guest
>>> writes
>>> adds to the complexity of device emulation code. A central fault-driven
>>> means
>>> for dirty tracking writes from the guest and host would be a welcome
>>> simplification to implementing pre-copy migration. Indeed, that's exactly
>>> what
>>> I'm working on! I'm using the softdirty bit, which was introduced
>>> recently for
>>> CRIU migration, to replace the use of KVM's dirty logging and manual
>>> dirty
>>> tracking by the VMM during pre-copy migration. See
>>
>>
>> Great! Do you plan to issue your patches to community? I mean is your work
>> based on
>> qemu? or an independent tool (CRIU migration?) for live-migration?
>> Maybe i could fix the migration problem for ivshmem in qemu now,
>> based on softdirty mechanism.
>>
>>> Documentation/vm/soft-dirty.txt and pagemap.txt in case you aren't
>>> familiar. To
>>
>>
>> I have read them cursorily, it is useful for pre-copy indeed. But it seems
>> that
>> it can not meet my need for snapshot.
>>
>>> make softdirty usable for live migration, I've added an API to atomically
>>> test-and-clear the bit and write protect the page.
>>
>>
>> How can i find the API? Is it been merged in kernel's master branch
>> already?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> zhanghailiang
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe kvm" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>> .
>>
>
--
Andres Lagar-Cavilla | Google Kernel Team | andreslc@google.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-10-31 5:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-10-03 17:07 [PATCH 00/17] RFC: userfault v2 Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 01/17] mm: gup: add FOLL_TRIED Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 18:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-03 20:55 ` Paolo Bonzini
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 02/17] mm: gup: add get_user_pages_locked and get_user_pages_unlocked Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 03/17] mm: gup: use get_user_pages_unlocked within get_user_pages_fast Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 04/17] mm: gup: make get_user_pages_fast and __get_user_pages_fast latency conscious Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 18:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-06 14:14 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 05/17] mm: gup: use get_user_pages_fast and get_user_pages_unlocked Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 06/17] kvm: Faults which trigger IO release the mmap_sem Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 07/17] mm: madvise MADV_USERFAULT: prepare vm_flags to allow more than 32bits Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 9:03 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-11-06 20:08 ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 08/17] mm: madvise MADV_USERFAULT Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 23:13 ` Mike Hommey
2014-10-06 17:24 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 10:36 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 10:46 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 10:52 ` [Qemu-devel] " Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 11:01 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 11:30 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 13:24 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 15:21 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-03 17:07 ` [PATCH 09/17] mm: PT lock: export double_pt_lock/unlock Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 10/17] mm: rmap preparation for remap_anon_pages Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 18:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-06 8:55 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-06 16:41 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 12:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-07 14:19 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 15:52 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-07 15:54 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 16:13 ` Peter Feiner
2014-10-07 16:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-10-07 17:07 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 17:14 ` Paolo Bonzini
2014-10-07 17:25 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-07 11:10 ` [Qemu-devel] " Kirill A. Shutemov
2014-10-07 13:37 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 11/17] mm: swp_entry_swapcount Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 12/17] mm: sys_remap_anon_pages Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-04 13:13 ` Andi Kleen
2014-10-06 17:00 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 13/17] waitqueue: add nr wake parameter to __wake_up_locked_key Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 14/17] userfaultfd: add new syscall to provide memory externalization Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 15/17] userfaultfd: make userfaultfd_write non blocking Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 16/17] powerpc: add remap_anon_pages and userfaultfd Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-03 17:08 ` [PATCH 17/17] userfaultfd: implement USERFAULTFD_RANGE_REGISTER|UNREGISTER Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-27 9:32 ` [PATCH 00/17] RFC: userfault v2 zhanghailiang
2014-10-29 17:46 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-29 17:56 ` [Qemu-devel] " Peter Maydell
2014-11-21 20:14 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-21 23:05 ` Peter Maydell
2014-11-25 19:45 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-10-30 11:31 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-30 12:49 ` Dr. David Alan Gilbert
2014-10-31 1:26 ` zhanghailiang
2014-11-19 18:49 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-20 2:54 ` zhanghailiang
2014-11-20 17:38 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-21 7:19 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 2:23 ` Peter Feiner
2014-10-31 3:29 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 4:38 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 5:17 ` Andres Lagar-Cavilla [this message]
2014-10-31 8:11 ` zhanghailiang
2014-10-31 19:39 ` Peter Feiner
2014-11-01 8:48 ` zhanghailiang
2014-11-20 17:29 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2014-11-12 7:18 ` zhanghailiang
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