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From: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>
To: Quentin Perret <quentin.perret@arm.com>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Saravana Kannan <skannan@codeaurora.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux PM <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
	Morten Rasmussen <morten.rasmussen@arm.com>,
	Chris Redpath <chris.redpath@arm.com>,
	Patrick Bellasi <patrick.bellasi@arm.com>,
	Valentin Schneider <valentin.schneider@arm.com>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
	Thara Gopinath <thara.gopinath@linaro.org>,
	Viresh Kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	Todd Kjos <tkjos@google.com>,
	Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
	Steve Muckle <smuckle@google.com>,
	adharmap@quicinc.com, skannan@quicinc.com,
	Pavan Kondeti <pkondeti@codeaurora.org>,
	Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
	Eduardo Valentin <edubezval@gmail.com>,
	Srinivas Pandruvada <srinivas.pandruvada@linux.intel.com>,
	currojerez@riseup.net, Javi Merino <javi.merino@kernel.org>,
	linux-pm-owner@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 10/14] sched/cpufreq: Refactor the utilization aggregation method
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 11:40:30 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJZ5v0g7VK3Gh5L5PM_z3_GbuaguAd_Dz17RmA6-0pTChuW+Sg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180801092325.g2upcivcvdo62hub@queper01-ThinkPad-T460s>

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Quentin Perret <quentin.perret@arm.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 Aug 2018 at 10:35:32 (+0200), Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Quentin Perret <quentin.perret@arm.com> wrote:
>> > On Wednesday 01 Aug 2018 at 09:32:49 (+0200), Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 9:31 PM,  <skannan@codeaurora.org> wrote:
>> >> >> On Monday 30 Jul 2018 at 12:35:27 (-0700), skannan@codeaurora.org wrote:
>> >> >>> If it's going to be a different aggregation from what's done for
>> >> >>> frequency
>> >> >>> guidance, I don't see the point of having this inside schedutil. Why not
>> >> >>> keep it inside the scheduler files?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This code basically results from a discussion we had with Peter on v4.
>> >> >> Keeping everything centralized can make sense from a maintenance
>> >> >> perspective, I think. That makes it easy to see the impact of any change
>> >> >> to utilization signals for both EAS and schedutil.
>> >> >
>> >> > In that case, I'd argue it makes more sense to keep the code centralized in
>> >> > the scheduler. The scheduler can let schedutil know about the utilization
>> >> > after it aggregates them. There's no need for a cpufreq governor to know
>> >> > that there are scheduling classes or how many there are. And the scheduler
>> >> > can then choose to aggregate one way for task packing and another way for
>> >> > frequency guidance.
>> >>
>> >> Also the aggregate utilization may be used by cpuidle governors in
>> >> principle to decide how deep they can go with idle state selection.
>> >
>> > The only issue I see with this right now is that some of the things done
>> > in this function are policy decisions which really belong to the governor,
>> > I think.
>>
>> Well, the scheduler makes policy decisions too, in quite a few places. :-)
>
> That is true ... ;-) But not so much about frequency selection yet I guess
>
>> The really important consideration here is whether or not there may be
>> multiple governors making different policy decisions in that respect.
>> If not, then where exactly the single policy decision is made doesn't
>> particularly matter IMO.
>
> I think some users of the aggregated utilization signal do want to make
> slightly different decisions (I'm thinking about the RT-go-to-max thing
> again which makes perfect sense in sugov, but could possibly hurt EAS).

Fair enough.

> So the "hard" part of this work is to figure out what really is a
> governor-specific policy decision, and what is common between all users.
> I put "hard" between quotes because I only see the case of RT as truly
> sugov-specific for now.

OK

> If we also want a special case for DL, Peter's enum should work OK, and
> enable to add more special cases for new users (cpuidle ?) if needed.
> But maybe that is something for later ?

I agree.  That can be done later if need be.

  reply index

Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-07-24 12:25 [PATCH v5 00/14] Energy Aware Scheduling Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 01/14] sched: Relocate arch_scale_cpu_capacity Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 02/14] sched/cpufreq: Factor out utilization to frequency mapping Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 03/14] PM: Introduce an Energy Model management framework Quentin Perret
2018-08-09 21:52   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10  8:15     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-10  8:41       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10  9:12         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-10 11:13           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10 12:30             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-12  9:49               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 04/14] PM / EM: Expose the Energy Model in sysfs Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 05/14] sched/topology: Reference the Energy Model of CPUs when available Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 06/14] sched/topology: Lowest energy aware balancing sched_domain level pointer Quentin Perret
2018-07-26 16:00   ` Valentin Schneider
2018-07-26 17:01     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 07/14] sched/topology: Introduce sched_energy_present static key Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 08/14] sched/fair: Clean-up update_sg_lb_stats parameters Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 09/14] sched: Add over-utilization/tipping point indicator Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 12:26   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 13:03     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 13:08       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 13:18         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 13:48           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 14:14             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 15:14               ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 15:30                 ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 15:55                   ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 16:00                     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 16:07                       ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 16:10                         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 16:38                           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 16:59                             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-03  7:48                               ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-03  8:18                                 ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-03 13:49                                   ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-03 14:21                                     ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-03 15:55                                     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-06  8:40                                       ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06  9:43                                         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-06 10:45                                           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06 11:02                                             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-06 10:08                                         ` Dietmar Eggemann
2018-08-06 10:33                                           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06 12:29                                             ` Dietmar Eggemann
2018-08-06 12:37                                               ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06 13:20                                                 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2018-08-09  9:30   ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-09  9:38     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 10/14] sched/cpufreq: Refactor the utilization aggregation method Quentin Perret
2018-07-30 19:35   ` skannan
2018-07-31  7:59     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-31 19:31       ` skannan
2018-08-01  7:32         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-01  8:23           ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-01  8:35             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-01  9:23               ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-01  9:40                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki [this message]
2018-08-02 13:04                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 15:39                   ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-03 13:04                     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 12:33     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 12:45       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 15:21         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 17:36           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-03 12:42             ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 11/14] sched/fair: Introduce an energy estimation helper function Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 12/14] sched/fair: Select an energy-efficient CPU on task wake-up Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 13:54   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 16:21     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 13/14] OPTIONAL: arch_topology: Start Energy Aware Scheduling Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 14/14] OPTIONAL: cpufreq: dt: Register an Energy Model Quentin Perret

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