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From: Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>
To: Quentin Perret <quentin.perret@arm.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"open list:THERMAL" <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	"gregkh@linuxfoundation.org" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
	Morten Rasmussen <morten.rasmussen@arm.com>,
	Chris Redpath <chris.redpath@arm.com>,
	Patrick Bellasi <patrick.bellasi@arm.com>,
	Valentin Schneider <valentin.schneider@arm.com>,
	Thara Gopinath <thara.gopinath@linaro.org>,
	viresh kumar <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	Todd Kjos <tkjos@google.com>,
	Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>,
	"Cc: Steve Muckle" <smuckle@google.com>,
	adharmap@quicinc.com, "Kannan, Saravana" <skannan@quicinc.com>,
	pkondeti@codeaurora.org, Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
	Eduardo Valentin <edubezval@gmail.com>,
	Srinivas Pandruvada <srinivas.pandruvada@linux.intel.com>,
	currojerez@riseup.net, Javi Merino <javi.merino@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 09/14] sched: Add over-utilization/tipping point indicator
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 15:49:24 +0200
Message-ID: <CAKfTPtDkJY=JYicZk8sM9_mJ-iq+Jwse0oVRbW=wpxXKKnEoeQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180803081850.hj7bp5ognuywapmd@queper01-lin>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:18, Quentin Perret <quentin.perret@arm.com> wrote:
>
> On Friday 03 Aug 2018 at 09:48:47 (+0200), Vincent Guittot wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 at 18:59, Quentin Perret <quentin.perret@arm.com> wrote:
> > I'm not really concerned about re-enabling load balance but more that
> > the effort of packing of tasks in few cpus/clusters that EAS tries to
> > do can be broken for every new task.
>
> Well, re-enabling load balance immediately would break the nice placement
> that EAS found, because it would shuffle all tasks around and break the
> packing strategy. Letting that sole new task go in find_idlest_cpu()

Sorry I was not clear in my explanation. Re enabling load balance
would be a problem of course. I wanted to say that there is few chance
that this will re-enable the load balance immediately and break EAS
and I'm not worried by this case. But i'm only concerned by the new
task being put outside EAS policy.

For example, if you run on hikey960 the simple script below, which
can't really be seen as a fork bomb IMHO, you will see threads
scheduled on big cores every 0.5 seconds whereas everything should be
packed on little core  :
for i in {0..10}; do
echo "t"$i
sleep 0.5
done

> shouldn't impact the placement of existing tasks. That might have an energy
> cost for that one task, yes, but it's really hard to do anything smarter
> with new tasks IMO ... EAS simply can't work without a utilization value.
>
> > So I wonder what is better for EAS : Make sure to efficiently spread
> > newly created tasks in cas of fork bomb or  try to not break EAS task
> > placement with every newly created tasks
>
> That shouldn't break the placement per se, we're just making one
> temporary exception for new tasks. What do you think 'the right thing'
> to do is ? To just put new tasks on prev_cpu or something like that ?

I think that EAS, which is about saving power, could be a bit power
friendly when it has to make some assumptions about new task.

>
> That might help some use-cases I suppose, but will probably harm others ...
> I'm just not too keen on making assumptions about the size of new tasks,

But you are already doing some assumptions by letting the default
mode, which use load_avg, selecting the task for you. The comment of
the init function of load_avg states:

void init_entity_runnable_average()
{
...
/*
* Tasks are intialized with full load to be seen as heavy tasks until
* they get a chance to stabilize to their real load level.
* Group entities are intialized with zero load to reflect the fact that
* nothing has been attached to the task group yet.
*/

So it means that EAS makes the assumption that new task are heavy
tasks until they get a chance to stabilize

Regards,
Vincent

> that's all. But I'm definitely open to ideas if there is something
> smarter we can do.
>
> Thanks,
> Quentin

  reply index

Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-07-24 12:25 [PATCH v5 00/14] Energy Aware Scheduling Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 01/14] sched: Relocate arch_scale_cpu_capacity Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 02/14] sched/cpufreq: Factor out utilization to frequency mapping Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 03/14] PM: Introduce an Energy Model management framework Quentin Perret
2018-08-09 21:52   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10  8:15     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-10  8:41       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10  9:12         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-10 11:13           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10 12:30             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-12  9:49               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 04/14] PM / EM: Expose the Energy Model in sysfs Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 05/14] sched/topology: Reference the Energy Model of CPUs when available Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 06/14] sched/topology: Lowest energy aware balancing sched_domain level pointer Quentin Perret
2018-07-26 16:00   ` Valentin Schneider
2018-07-26 17:01     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 07/14] sched/topology: Introduce sched_energy_present static key Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 08/14] sched/fair: Clean-up update_sg_lb_stats parameters Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 09/14] sched: Add over-utilization/tipping point indicator Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 12:26   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 13:03     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 13:08       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 13:18         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 13:48           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 14:14             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 15:14               ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 15:30                 ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 15:55                   ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 16:00                     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 16:07                       ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 16:10                         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 16:38                           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-02 16:59                             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-03  7:48                               ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-03  8:18                                 ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-03 13:49                                   ` Vincent Guittot [this message]
2018-08-03 14:21                                     ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-03 15:55                                     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-06  8:40                                       ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06  9:43                                         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-06 10:45                                           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06 11:02                                             ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-06 10:08                                         ` Dietmar Eggemann
2018-08-06 10:33                                           ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06 12:29                                             ` Dietmar Eggemann
2018-08-06 12:37                                               ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-06 13:20                                                 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2018-08-09  9:30   ` Vincent Guittot
2018-08-09  9:38     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 10/14] sched/cpufreq: Refactor the utilization aggregation method Quentin Perret
2018-07-30 19:35   ` skannan
2018-07-31  7:59     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-31 19:31       ` skannan
2018-08-01  7:32         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-01  8:23           ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-01  8:35             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-01  9:23               ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-01  9:40                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-02 13:04                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 15:39                   ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-03 13:04                     ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 12:33     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 12:45       ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 15:21         ` Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 17:36           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-03 12:42             ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 11/14] sched/fair: Introduce an energy estimation helper function Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 12/14] sched/fair: Select an energy-efficient CPU on task wake-up Quentin Perret
2018-08-02 13:54   ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-08-02 16:21     ` Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 13/14] OPTIONAL: arch_topology: Start Energy Aware Scheduling Quentin Perret
2018-07-24 12:25 ` [PATCH v5 14/14] OPTIONAL: cpufreq: dt: Register an Energy Model Quentin Perret

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