From: Andre Hedrick <andre@linux-ide.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 03:35:10 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10304280329280.17391-100000@master.linux-ide.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b8eipq$fpk$1@penguin.transmeta.com>
Linus,
There is one fundamental problem, and nobody has addressed.
Who will enforce the GPL over DRM violations?
Since it is a blanket over the entire kernel, and you have formally
(for the most part) have authorized DRM, thus one assumes you are the only
one who can pursue in a court of law.
Regardless of what I or anyone thinks, this effective places total
copyright to you. Additionally for you to have a legal position to stand
on, it may be required for one to show you have total authority/assignment
of the entire kernel.
This is only an old man thinking out loud.
Cheers,
Andre Hedrick
LAD Storage Consulting Group
On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.21.0304261459210.10838-100000@vervain.sonytel.be>,
> Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
> >
> >Hence the development rate of Linux will go down, since you cannot use your
> >Linux development box running your own development kernel for anything else,
> >since that would require a signed kernel.
>
> Quite frankly, I suspect a much more likely issue is going to be that
> DRM doesn't matter at all in the long run.
>
> Maybe I'm just a blue-eyed optimist, but all the _bad_ forms of DRM look
> to be just fundamentally doomed. They are all designed to screw over
> customers and normal users, and in the world I live in that's not how
> you make friends (or money, which ends up being a lot more relevant to
> most companies).
>
> Think about it. Successful companies give their customers what they
> _want_. They don't force-feed them. Look at the total and utter
> failure of commercial on-line music: the DRM things that has been tried
> have been complete failures. Why? I'm personally convinced the cost is
> only a minor issue - the _anti_convenience of the DRM crap (magic file
> formats that only work with some players etc) is what really kills it in
> the end.
>
> And that's a fundamental flaw in any "bad" DRM. It's not going away.
>
> We've seen this before. Remember when dongles were plentiful in the
> software world? People literally had problems with having dongles on top
> of dongles to run a few programs. They all died out, simply because
> consumers _hate_ that kind of lock-in thing.
>
> This is part of the reason why I have no trouble with DRM - let the
> people who want to try it go right ahead. They'll only screw themselves
> over in the end, because the people who do _not_ try to control their
> customers will in the end have the superior product. It's that simple.
>
> As to the quake-on-PC issue - it's a completely made-up example, but it
> does show the same thing. Nobody in their right mind would ever _do_ a
> DRM-enabled quake on a PC, because it limits you too much. PC's are
> _designed_ ot be flexible - that's what makes the PC's. DRM on a PC is
> a totally braindead idea, and I _hope_ Microsoft goes down that path
> because it will kill them in the end.
>
> The place where client authentication makes sense is on specialty boxes.
> On a dedicated game machine it's an _advantage_ to verify the client,
> exactly to make sure that nobody is cheating. I think products like the
> PS2 and the Xbox actually make _sense_ - they make it convenient for the
> user, and yes they use DRM techniques to "remove rights", but that's
> very much by design and when you buy the box 99.9% of all people buy it
> _because_ it only does one thing.
>
> Linus
> -
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>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-04-28 10:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 230+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-04-24 3:59 Flame Linus to a crisp! Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 4:40 ` Joel Jaeggli
2003-04-24 4:43 ` Greg KH
2003-04-24 4:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 5:02 ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24 5:39 ` viro
2003-04-24 5:56 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-24 8:46 ` Dax Kelson
2003-04-24 9:46 ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24 10:54 ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-04-25 0:07 ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24 4:54 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-04-24 5:16 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 13:08 ` Shawn
2003-04-24 20:12 ` Kenneth Johansson
2003-04-24 17:32 ` Andreas Boman
2003-04-24 17:41 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24 19:39 ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-26 17:05 ` Riley Williams
2003-04-24 5:02 ` Mark J Roberts
2003-04-24 5:13 ` Clemens Schwaighofer
2003-04-24 5:15 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24 5:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 6:15 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-24 7:44 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 8:03 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-25 1:16 ` Jan Harkes
2003-04-25 1:35 ` Stan Bubrouski
2003-04-24 8:16 ` John Bradford
2003-04-24 8:31 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 8:59 ` John Bradford
2003-04-24 8:50 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 14:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 15:00 ` Jeff Garzik
2003-04-24 19:03 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 19:32 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 19:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 20:19 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 20:35 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 19:39 ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-24 21:02 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 18:58 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 21:08 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:37 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 21:30 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:38 ` John Bradford
2003-04-25 3:20 ` Shawn
2003-04-25 5:47 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25 7:02 ` John Bradford
2003-04-25 8:05 ` Simple x86 Simulator (was: Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!) Steven Augart
2003-04-25 15:38 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-25 16:10 ` John Bradford
2003-04-25 11:44 ` Antonio Vargas
2003-04-25 8:52 ` Flame Linus to a crisp! Helge Hafting
2003-04-25 14:03 ` Mike Dresser
2003-04-24 21:42 ` Russell King
2003-04-25 6:08 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-25 11:46 ` Antonio Vargas
2003-04-24 10:57 ` Giuliano Pochini
2003-04-24 22:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-04-24 7:55 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 8:37 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24 8:59 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 12:52 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-24 15:37 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 18:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 20:46 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 20:50 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:03 ` Chris Adams
2003-04-24 22:29 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-24 22:41 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 22:54 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 0:26 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 22:41 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 14:21 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 16:13 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-04-27 16:59 ` Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 17:04 ` Ben Collins
2003-04-27 17:34 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-27 18:41 ` Henrik Persson
2003-04-27 17:35 ` Måns Rullgård
2003-04-27 17:49 ` Mirar
2003-04-27 23:15 ` H. Peter Anvin
2003-04-27 17:59 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-27 21:28 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-28 1:48 ` rmoser
2003-04-28 9:05 ` Måns Rullgård
2003-04-28 10:44 ` The X-Window System John Bradford
2003-04-28 14:37 ` Herman Oosthuysen
2003-04-28 16:28 ` uaca
2003-05-06 3:55 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-27 18:07 ` Why DRM exists [was Re: Flame Linus to a crisp!] Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-04-27 18:35 ` Chris Adams
2003-04-27 18:50 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 19:11 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-04-27 20:13 ` Frank van Maarseveen
2003-04-27 20:34 ` walt
2003-04-27 21:26 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 22:07 ` Ross Vandegrift
2003-04-27 22:32 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 22:05 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 23:28 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 0:06 ` Ross Vandegrift
2003-04-28 11:03 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-29 18:06 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-28 9:06 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-04-28 14:55 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-28 20:04 ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2003-04-28 20:18 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 20:22 ` Chris Adams
2003-04-28 21:24 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 21:40 ` Roman Zippel
2003-04-28 22:13 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-28 22:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-29 0:09 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-29 4:07 ` Dax Kelson
2003-04-29 5:08 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-29 16:40 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 21:45 ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-30 9:58 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-30 15:06 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 5:59 ` Theodore Ts'o
2003-04-29 16:41 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-29 14:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 22:34 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 22:51 ` Matthew Kirkwood
2003-04-27 23:53 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 0:00 ` rmoser
[not found] ` <20030428001001.GP23068@work.bitmover.com>
2003-04-28 0:19 ` rmoser
2003-04-28 0:37 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-28 0:40 ` rmoser
2003-04-28 11:38 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-04-29 14:21 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 14:27 ` Henrik Persson
2003-04-29 19:56 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 20:35 ` Henrik Persson
2003-04-30 8:39 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-27 18:47 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-04-27 18:56 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-27 19:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-27 21:30 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-04-27 21:32 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 22:36 ` Larry McVoy
2003-04-27 21:56 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 23:08 ` Matthew Kirkwood
2003-04-27 22:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-27 23:35 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-27 22:07 ` Matthias Andree
2003-04-28 0:36 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-04-28 9:57 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-05-06 15:58 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-05-07 14:44 ` Stephan von Krawczynski
2003-05-07 14:28 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-07 21:40 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-05-07 22:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-05-08 0:33 ` Kurt Wall
2003-04-28 11:26 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-05-06 15:59 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-04-28 22:50 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-29 14:46 ` Jeffrey Souza
2003-04-29 15:16 ` venom
2003-04-30 9:35 ` Jamie Lokier
[not found] ` <20030427171007$6d24@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-04-27 20:08 ` Why DRM exists Florian Weimer
2003-04-24 19:23 ` Flame Linus to a crisp! Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 19:50 ` Balram Adlakha
2003-04-24 8:57 ` Arjan van de Ven
2003-04-24 9:19 ` Russell King
2003-04-24 11:38 ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-04-24 17:46 ` Shachar Shemesh
2003-04-24 14:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-24 12:39 ` Mark Mielke
2003-04-24 15:53 ` Elladan
2003-04-24 18:31 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 23:15 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 11:28 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-04-27 1:31 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-27 1:59 ` David Wagner
2003-04-25 14:37 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-25 15:17 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-25 17:37 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-26 21:59 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-26 13:00 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-26 18:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-26 18:41 ` viro
2003-04-26 18:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-28 14:20 ` John Stoffel
2003-04-26 19:23 ` Michael Buesch
2003-04-28 10:35 ` Andre Hedrick [this message]
2003-04-28 12:12 ` Jörn Engel
2003-04-28 14:01 ` Zack Gilburd
2003-04-28 14:30 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-04-26 18:21 ` Rik van Riel
2003-04-26 23:34 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-27 3:59 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-24 20:16 ` Nils Holland
2003-04-25 4:46 ` My take on Trusted Computing and DRM Joseph Pingenot
[not found] <20030424041004$113a@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-04-24 4:53 ` Flame Linus to a crisp! Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
2003-04-24 12:36 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 14:12 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 22:48 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-25 12:29 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2003-04-25 15:45 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-24 20:39 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 21:28 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:42 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-24 22:45 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-24 23:59 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-04-25 9:07 ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-25 13:01 ` David Luyer
2003-04-25 8:13 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-25 19:12 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25 20:56 ` Andreas Jellinghaus
2003-04-25 21:50 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-24 21:55 Daniel Callahan
2003-04-24 22:10 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-24 22:36 ` Jamie Lokier
2003-04-25 12:23 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-25 12:36 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-27 7:25 ` Adrian Bunk
2003-04-25 12:41 Downing, Thomas
2003-04-25 12:57 Downing, Thomas
[not found] <Pine.LNX.4.44.0304232012400.19176-100000@home.transmeta.co m>
2003-04-27 10:52 ` Houston, I think we have a problem Mike Galbraith
2003-04-27 14:41 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-04-27 17:25 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-04-27 17:29 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-04-27 17:41 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-04-27 17:54 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-04-28 5:17 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-04-28 6:15 ` Jan Harkes
2003-04-28 9:30 Flame Linus to a crisp! Martin_List-Petersen
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