* 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor @ 2001-06-12 0:24 Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 0:29 ` Kip Macy ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-12 0:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Linux Kernel List I just had one of the "3com Etherlink 10/100 PCI NIC with 3XP processor" float accross my desk, I was wondering how much the linux kernel uses the 3xp processor for its encryption offloading and such. According to the hype it does DES without using the CPU, does linux take advantage of that? Brent Norris Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity Best Mechanical W: 270-745-8864 H: 270-563-9226 "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 0:24 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-12 0:29 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-12 0:43 ` Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 16:12 ` Pavel Machek 2001-06-12 16:27 ` Alan Cox 2 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Kip Macy @ 2001-06-12 0:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Brent D. Norris; +Cc: Linux Kernel List It can't because 3com hasn't implemented in the driver and they won't publish the interface. -Kip On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > I just had one of the "3com Etherlink 10/100 PCI NIC with 3XP processor" > float accross my desk, I was wondering how much the linux kernel uses the > 3xp processor for its encryption offloading and such. According to the > hype it does DES without using the CPU, does linux take advantage of that? > > Brent Norris > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity > Best Mechanical > > W: 270-745-8864 > H: 270-563-9226 > > "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once > at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 0:29 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-12 0:43 ` Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 1:18 ` Kip Macy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-12 0:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kip Macy; +Cc: Linux Kernel List I thought 3com was pretty friendly to the Linux Community, was that a misconception? > It can't because 3com hasn't implemented in the driver and they won't > publish the interface. > -Kip > Brent Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 0:43 ` Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-12 1:18 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-12 16:24 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Kip Macy @ 2001-06-12 1:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Brent D. Norris; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List I think that they are relatively friendly. However, if they publish the interface to their card another company could come along with a card with the same functionality and take advantage of pre-existing drivers and undercut their price, thus taking away their margins. At least that is the rationale I have been given and this has occurred on at least one occasion to Adaptec. My opinion is that if you have to obscure your interface to protect your margins because you are making a commodity component then you are in the wrong business. Nonetheless they can correctly point out that they are still making a lot more money than I am :-). -Kip On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > I thought 3com was pretty friendly to the Linux Community, was that a > misconception? > > > It can't because 3com hasn't implemented in the driver and they won't > > publish the interface. > > -Kip > > > > Brent > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 1:18 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-12 16:24 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2001-06-12 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kip Macy; +Cc: Brent D. Norris, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List > My opinion is that if you have to obscure your interface to protect your > margins because you are making a commodity component then you are in the > wrong business. Nonetheless they can correctly point out that they are Cryto hardware is commodity. In fact its questionable it has any value below 1Gbit/second anyway because the cheapest low speed crypto coprocessors are made by AMD and intel. They fit into the second socket on your dual cpu motherboard and as well as being mass market are conveinently reprogrammable and able to run your applications when not doing crypto. The cheapest raid accelerator is the same story. It costs a lot of money to build custom hardwae, an x86 is the wrong solution but its sufficiently large a hamemr that it works better than the elegant approach for most cases. > still making a lot more money than I am :-). That I doubt looking at recent financial reports But I'd be inclined to ask 3com What other large company helped design the interface and owns some of the IP Does that other company have an interest in the OS business. I don't know for sure but I suspect that would give a most interesting answer ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 0:24 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 0:29 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-12 16:12 ` Pavel Machek 2001-06-13 10:30 ` James Sutherland 2001-06-12 16:27 ` Alan Cox 2 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2001-06-12 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Brent D. Norris; +Cc: Linux Kernel List Hi! > I just had one of the "3com Etherlink 10/100 PCI NIC with 3XP processor" > float accross my desk, I was wondering how much the linux kernel uses the > 3xp processor for its encryption offloading and such. According to the > hype it does DES without using the CPU, does linux take advantage of that? Doing DES is uninteresting these days... That feature is useless --- everything but IPsec does encryption at application layer where NIC can not help. Pavel -- Philips Velo 1: 1"x4"x8", 300gram, 60, 12MB, 40bogomips, linux, mutt, details at http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/velo/index.html. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 16:12 ` Pavel Machek @ 2001-06-13 10:30 ` James Sutherland 2001-06-14 19:13 ` Brent D. Norris 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: James Sutherland @ 2001-06-13 10:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pavel Machek; +Cc: Brent D. Norris, Linux Kernel List On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Pavel Machek wrote: > Hi! > > > I just had one of the "3com Etherlink 10/100 PCI NIC with 3XP processor" > > float accross my desk, I was wondering how much the linux kernel uses the > > 3xp processor for its encryption offloading and such. According to the > > hype it does DES without using the CPU, does linux take advantage of that? > > Doing DES is uninteresting these days... > > That feature is useless --- everything but IPsec does encryption at > application layer where NIC can not help. Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload other work? James. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-13 10:30 ` James Sutherland @ 2001-06-14 19:13 ` Brent D. Norris 2001-06-14 21:13 ` Martin Moerman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-14 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: James Sutherland; +Cc: Pavel Machek, Linux Kernel List > Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT > donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: > apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or > Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload > other work? Sorry my bad it is 3DES that they have on it, but I don't know how in-grained it is in it. Like I sad it just floated across my desk a few days ago and it sounded like a cool bit of hardware. Brent Norris Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity Best Mechanical W: 270-745-8864 H: 270-563-9226 "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 19:13 ` Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-14 21:13 ` Martin Moerman 2001-06-14 21:18 ` nick 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Martin Moerman @ 2001-06-14 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Brent D. Norris; +Cc: James Sutherland, Pavel Machek, Linux Kernel List On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > > Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT > > donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: > > apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or > > Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload > > other work? > > Sorry my bad it is 3DES that they have on it, but I don't know how > in-grained it is in it. Like I sad it just floated across my desk a few > days ago and it sounded like a cool bit of hardware. The card is offloading TCP/IP checksums, TCP/IP packet fragmentation, and does IPSEC through the ARM9 proc. I like the card. but no real real linux drivers yet. only basic network card drivers for linux. /Martin martin_moerman@eur.3com.com > > Brent Norris > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity > Best Mechanical > > W: 270-745-8864 > H: 270-563-9226 > > "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once > at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:13 ` Martin Moerman @ 2001-06-14 21:18 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:26 ` Kip Macy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: nick @ 2001-06-14 21:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Martin Moerman Cc: Brent D. Norris, James Sutherland, Pavel Machek, Linux Kernel List So what is the truth to the rumors 3com was throwing around about the "linux driver with ipsec support"? Nick On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Martin Moerman wrote: > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > > > > Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT > > > donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: > > > apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or > > > Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload > > > other work? > > > > Sorry my bad it is 3DES that they have on it, but I don't know how > > in-grained it is in it. Like I sad it just floated across my desk a few > > days ago and it sounded like a cool bit of hardware. > > > The card is offloading TCP/IP checksums, TCP/IP packet fragmentation, and > does IPSEC through the ARM9 proc. > > I like the card. but no real real linux drivers yet. only basic network > card drivers for linux. > > /Martin > martin_moerman@eur.3com.com > > > > > > > Brent Norris > > > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > > > System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity > > Best Mechanical > > > > W: 270-745-8864 > > H: 270-563-9226 > > > > "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once > > at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan > > > > - > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:18 ` nick @ 2001-06-14 21:26 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller 0 siblings, 2 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Linux Kernel List IPsec support will be binary only. -Kip On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > So what is the truth to the rumors 3com was throwing around about the > "linux driver with ipsec support"? > Nick > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Martin Moerman wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > > > > > > Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT > > > > donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: > > > > apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or > > > > Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload > > > > other work? > > > > > > Sorry my bad it is 3DES that they have on it, but I don't know how > > > in-grained it is in it. Like I sad it just floated across my desk a few > > > days ago and it sounded like a cool bit of hardware. > > > > > > The card is offloading TCP/IP checksums, TCP/IP packet fragmentation, and > > does IPSEC through the ARM9 proc. > > > > I like the card. but no real real linux drivers yet. only basic network > > card drivers for linux. > > > > /Martin > > martin_moerman@eur.3com.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Brent Norris > > > > > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > > > > > System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity > > > Best Mechanical > > > > > > W: 270-745-8864 > > > H: 270-563-9226 > > > > > > "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once > > > at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:26 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:37 ` Kip Macy ` (2 more replies) 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller 1 sibling, 3 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: nick @ 2001-06-14 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kip Macy; +Cc: Linux Kernel List Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace them with someone else's product? Nick On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Kip Macy wrote: > IPsec support will be binary only. > > -Kip > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > > > So what is the truth to the rumors 3com was throwing around about the > > "linux driver with ipsec support"? > > Nick > > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Martin Moerman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > > > > > > > > Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT > > > > > donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: > > > > > apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or > > > > > Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload > > > > > other work? > > > > > > > > Sorry my bad it is 3DES that they have on it, but I don't know how > > > > in-grained it is in it. Like I sad it just floated across my desk a few > > > > days ago and it sounded like a cool bit of hardware. > > > > > > > > > The card is offloading TCP/IP checksums, TCP/IP packet fragmentation, and > > > does IPSEC through the ARM9 proc. > > > > > > I like the card. but no real real linux drivers yet. only basic network > > > card drivers for linux. > > > > > > /Martin > > > martin_moerman@eur.3com.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brent Norris > > > > > > > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > > > > > > > System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity > > > > Best Mechanical > > > > > > > > W: 270-745-8864 > > > > H: 270-563-9226 > > > > > > > > "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once > > > > at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan > > > > > > > > - > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick @ 2001-06-14 21:37 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-15 2:50 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson 2001-06-15 2:47 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson 2001-06-16 9:04 ` Martin Moerman 2 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Linux Kernel List So it would seem. Here is the polite message I received in response my inquiry regarding the crypto interface to the card: > > > Thank you for your inquiry. We do not offer the > technical spec;s for the IPSec > features of this NIC, due to the intellectual > property-heavy nature of this > product. We will, however, be releasing a Linux > driver which supports this > feature in the very near future under the beta > section of our support site. The > base driver for the 990 will be open source, the > advanced driver (offloads, > etc.) will not be open source. Hope that somewhat > helps you. On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > them with someone else's product? > Nick > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Kip Macy wrote: > > > IPsec support will be binary only. > > As I mentioned previously IP heavy is a euphemism for commodity. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:37 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-15 2:50 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Dr. Kelsey Hudson @ 2001-06-15 2:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Linux Kernel List On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Kip Macy wrote: > As I mentioned previously IP heavy is a euphemism for commodity. ...and 3Com is notoriuos for putting out commodity, cheesy hardware. Kelsey Hudson khudson@ctica.com Software Engineer Compendium Technologies, Inc (619) 725-0771 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:37 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-15 2:47 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson 2001-06-15 2:51 ` nick 2001-06-16 9:04 ` Martin Moerman 2 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Dr. Kelsey Hudson @ 2001-06-15 2:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > them with someone else's product? I would... 3Com hardware (as far as i'm concerned) is garbage Kelsey Hudson khudson@ctica.com Software Engineer Compendium Technologies, Inc (619) 725-0771 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 2:47 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson @ 2001-06-15 2:51 ` nick 2001-06-15 4:01 ` [OT] " Brent D. Norris 2001-06-15 14:45 ` Alan Cox 0 siblings, 2 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: nick @ 2001-06-15 2:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dr. Kelsey Hudson; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List I've installed several thousand 3com cards of various ages and types. I've had less than 20 bad cards. Nick On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Dr. Kelsey Hudson wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > > > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > > them with someone else's product? > > I would... 3Com hardware (as far as i'm concerned) is garbage > > Kelsey Hudson khudson@ctica.com > Software Engineer > Compendium Technologies, Inc (619) 725-0771 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* [OT] Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 2:51 ` nick @ 2001-06-15 4:01 ` Brent D. Norris 2001-06-15 14:45 ` Alan Cox 1 sibling, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-15 4:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Dr. Kelsey Hudson, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List Insteresting that this thread fell into this. I just had one of those cards that came across my desk phreak out. It was 2 days old and placed in a win2k server. Last night it started dumping errors about firmware and bad microcde. Have yet to test it out on another machine, but I beleive the card went bad. first 3com I have had go bad and first card I have ever had go bad inside of 2 days :) > I've installed several thousand 3com cards of variousages and types. > I've had less than 20 bad cards. > Nick Brent Norris Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 2:51 ` nick 2001-06-15 4:01 ` [OT] " Brent D. Norris @ 2001-06-15 14:45 ` Alan Cox 2001-06-15 14:59 ` Venkatesh Ramamurthy 1 sibling, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2001-06-15 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Dr. Kelsey Hudson, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List > I've installed several thousand 3com cards of various ages and > types. I've had less than 20 bad cards. > Nick Seconded. 3Com stuff is overpriced but reliable. They have also (prior to this event) been very good at working with the Linux community, including digging out docs for old MCA hardware they no longer even sell Alan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 14:45 ` Alan Cox @ 2001-06-15 14:59 ` Venkatesh Ramamurthy 2001-06-17 16:35 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Venkatesh Ramamurthy @ 2001-06-15 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alan Cox; +Cc: Linux Kernel List > Seconded. 3Com stuff is overpriced but reliable. They have also (prior to this > event) been very good at working with the Linux community, including digging out > docs for old MCA hardware they no longer even sell Gee... I dont know whether they are good in working with Linux community. I asked them documentation for thier PCI based ADSL modem... so that i can write driver for it, which they decently refused to give it.... i tried hard for months.... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 14:59 ` Venkatesh Ramamurthy @ 2001-06-17 16:35 ` Pavel Machek 0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Pavel Machek @ 2001-06-17 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Venkatesh Ramamurthy, Alan Cox; +Cc: Linux Kernel List Hi! > > Seconded. 3Com stuff is overpriced but reliable. They have also (prior to > this > > event) been very good at working with the Linux community, including > digging out > > docs for old MCA hardware they no longer even sell > > Gee... I dont know whether they are good in working with Linux community. I > asked them documentation for thier PCI based ADSL modem... so that i can > write driver for it, which they decently refused to give it.... i tried hard > for months.... And do they really have that docs? I asked them for docs on 3com homeconnect. Guess what, they probably can't give it to me. 3com homeconnect == vicam. Pavel -- I'm pavel@ucw.cz. "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care." Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at discuss@linmodems.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:37 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-15 2:47 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson @ 2001-06-16 9:04 ` Martin Moerman 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Martin Moerman @ 2001-06-16 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List Well nick, that is your choice. /Martin martin_moerman@eur.3com.com On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > them with someone else's product? > Nick > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Kip Macy wrote: > > > IPsec support will be binary only. > > > > -Kip > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 nick@snowman.net wrote: > > > > > So what is the truth to the rumors 3com was throwing around about the > > > "linux driver with ipsec support"? > > > Nick > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Martin Moerman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Brent D. Norris wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Now, if the NIC were to integrate with OpenSSL and offload some of THAT > > > > > > donkey work... Just offloading DES isn't terribly useful, as Pavel says: > > > > > > apart from anything else, DES is a bit elderly now - SSH using 3DES or > > > > > > Blowfish etc... How dedicated is this card? Could it be used to offload > > > > > > other work? > > > > > > > > > > Sorry my bad it is 3DES that they have on it, but I don't know how > > > > > in-grained it is in it. Like I sad it just floated across my desk a few > > > > > days ago and it sounded like a cool bit of hardware. > > > > > > > > > > > > The card is offloading TCP/IP checksums, TCP/IP packet fragmentation, and > > > > does IPSEC through the ARM9 proc. > > > > > > > > I like the card. but no real real linux drivers yet. only basic network > > > > card drivers for linux. > > > > > > > > /Martin > > > > martin_moerman@eur.3com.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brent Norris > > > > > > > > > > Executive Advisor -- WKU-Linux > > > > > > > > > > System Administrator -- WKU-Center for Biodiversity > > > > > Best Mechanical > > > > > > > > > > W: 270-745-8864 > > > > > H: 270-563-9226 > > > > > > > > > > "The problem with the Linux learning curve is that it is _so_ steep once > > > > > at the top you can't see the people at the bottom" --Doug Hagan > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:26 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick @ 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:40 ` nick ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List nick@snowman.net writes: > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > them with someone else's product? Many of us on the networking developer team believe that making the programming interface to the cpus on the Tigon3 is the biggest mistake 3com could ever make. What made the Acenic so ubiquitous and interesting was that you could program the firmware on the board to do whatever you like. They even provided an entire firmware developer kit so you could hack on it. So many useful projects came from this capability. I feel dirty working on the Tigon3 driver for 2.4.x because of this. Later, David S. Miller davem@redhat.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:40 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:40 ` Kip Macy ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: nick @ 2001-06-14 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List So are there any intresting changes one can make to the acenic? I've got one, mostly unused right now. I've been told it is mostly a pair or R5ks hooked back to back. Would anyone have a recommendation for a replacement to the 3cr990? Nick On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, David S. Miller wrote: > > nick@snowman.net writes: > > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > > them with someone else's product? > > Many of us on the networking developer team believe that making the > programming interface to the cpus on the Tigon3 is the biggest mistake > 3com could ever make. > > What made the Acenic so ubiquitous and interesting was that you could > program the firmware on the board to do whatever you like. They even > provided an entire firmware developer kit so you could hack on it. > > So many useful projects came from this capability. > > I feel dirty working on the Tigon3 driver for 2.4.x because of this. > > Later, > David S. Miller > davem@redhat.com > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:40 ` nick @ 2001-06-14 21:40 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:41 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller 3 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: nick, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List The acenic is definitely a kick-ass card. One's natural inclination is to assume that an interface is obscured because it is second rate. -Kip On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, David S. Miller wrote: > > nick@snowman.net writes: > > Erm, that is going to be a problem. Crypto benifits more from open source > > than any other market segment, and binary only drivers for linux are not > > the way to go. I guess I need to get rid of my 5-10 3cr990s and replace > > them with someone else's product? > > Many of us on the networking developer team believe that making the > programming interface to the cpus on the Tigon3 is the biggest mistake > 3com could ever make. > > What made the Acenic so ubiquitous and interesting was that you could > program the firmware on the board to do whatever you like. They even > provided an entire firmware developer kit so you could hack on it. > > So many useful projects came from this capability. > > I feel dirty working on the Tigon3 driver for 2.4.x because of this. > > Later, > David S. Miller > davem@redhat.com > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:40 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:40 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:41 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:12 ` Pete Wyckoff 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller 3 siblings, 2 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nick; +Cc: Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List nick@snowman.net writes: > So are there any intresting changes one can make to the acenic? Like I said, there is an entire firmware developer kit, so the only limit is your imagination and coding skills :-) Later, David S. Miller davem@redhat.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:41 ` David S. Miller @ 2001-06-15 15:12 ` Pete Wyckoff 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller 1 sibling, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Pete Wyckoff @ 2001-06-15 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: nick, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List davem@redhat.com said: > nick@snowman.net writes: > > So are there any intresting changes one can make to the acenic? > > Like I said, there is an entire firmware developer kit, so the only > limit is your imagination and coding skills :-) I wrote a new firmware from scratch to offload most of a message passing implementation (MPI, actually) into the Alteon NIC, including timeout and retransmit, message matching, header building, etc. It's almost ready for release. We're currently working on using both processors of the Tigon in parallel. There is other work which has modified the Alteon firmware to do, for example, segmentation and reassembly (Underwood et al.), and further work in progress on other topics. Programmable NICs are fun. I'd like to get one of those Tigon3 cards to see if any of the register layout on the Tigon2 is still there, hoping the interface is similar at least. -- Pete ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:41 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:12 ` Pete Wyckoff @ 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:52 ` Pekka Pietikainen ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: David S. Miller @ 2001-06-15 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pete Wyckoff; +Cc: nick, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List Pete Wyckoff writes: > We're currently working on using both processors > of the Tigon in parallel. It is my understanding that on the Tigon2, the second processor is only for working around hw bugs in the DMA controller of the board and cannot be used for other tasks. WRT. tigon3, it was mentioned on this list that it is a pair of arm9 cpus, one for rx and one for tx. Later, David S. Miller davem@redhat.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller @ 2001-06-15 15:52 ` Pekka Pietikainen 2001-06-16 9:12 ` Martin Moerman 2001-06-18 14:43 ` Jamie Lokier 2001-06-25 15:42 ` Jes Sorensen 2 siblings, 1 reply; 36+ messages in thread From: Pekka Pietikainen @ 2001-06-15 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Linux Kernel List On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 08:37:15AM -0700, David S. Miller wrote: > > Pete Wyckoff writes: > > We're currently working on using both processors > > of the Tigon in parallel. > > It is my understanding that on the Tigon2, the second processor is > only for working around hw bugs in the DMA controller of the board and > cannot be used for other tasks. > > WRT. tigon3, it was mentioned on this list that it is a pair of arm9 > cpus, one for rx and one for tx. > Might be worth asking broadcom instead of 3com for the specs, as they seem to be selling it as a chip (BCM5700/5701), whereas 3com sells a board (3c996). -- Pekka Pietikainen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 15:52 ` Pekka Pietikainen @ 2001-06-16 9:12 ` Martin Moerman 0 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Martin Moerman @ 2001-06-16 9:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Pekka Pietikainen; +Cc: Linux Kernel List On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Pekka Pietikainen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 08:37:15AM -0700, David S. Miller wrote: > > > > Pete Wyckoff writes: > > > We're currently working on using both processors > > > of the Tigon in parallel. > > > > It is my understanding that on the Tigon2, the second processor is > > only for working around hw bugs in the DMA controller of the board and > > cannot be used for other tasks. > > > > WRT. tigon3, it was mentioned on this list that it is a pair of arm9 > > cpus, one for rx and one for tx. > > > Might be worth asking broadcom instead of 3com for the specs, > as they seem to be selling it as a chip (BCM5700/5701), whereas 3com sells a > board (3c996). > Guys, To make it easier, Tell me exactly what you need in documentation and I will try to get it for you. Martin Moerman martin_moerman@eur.3com.com > -- > Pekka Pietikainen > > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:52 ` Pekka Pietikainen @ 2001-06-18 14:43 ` Jamie Lokier 2001-06-25 15:42 ` Jes Sorensen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Jamie Lokier @ 2001-06-18 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: Pete Wyckoff, nick, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List David S. Miller wrote: > Pete Wyckoff writes: > > We're currently working on using both processors > > of the Tigon in parallel. > > It is my understanding that on the Tigon2, the second processor is > only for working around hw bugs in the DMA controller of the board and > cannot be used for other tasks. It certainly can be used for other tasks. At CERN we have programmed both processors on the Tigon2 to act as a traffic generator & measurement tool to test switches. We use lots of cards in parallel to drive all ports on a switch. It's given us much more useful results than the expensive S*******s tester. We even went so far as to build a Tigon2 development kit for Linux, and got about 5% better performance just from using a better version of GCC and linker tricks. The Tigon2 cards are wonderful because of our ability to program it however we like, and I really hope we can build similar interesting devices from a crop of someone's Tigon3 cards. -- Jamie ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:52 ` Pekka Pietikainen 2001-06-18 14:43 ` Jamie Lokier @ 2001-06-25 15:42 ` Jes Sorensen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Jes Sorensen @ 2001-06-25 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: Pete Wyckoff, nick, Kip Macy, Linux Kernel List >>>>> "David" == David S Miller <davem@redhat.com> writes: David> Pete Wyckoff writes: >> We're currently working on using both processors of the Tigon in >> parallel. David> It is my understanding that on the Tigon2, the second processor David> is only for working around hw bugs in the DMA controller of the David> board and cannot be used for other tasks. Actually it was intended to be used for other stuff but they ended up having to use it for workarounds. Jes ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2001-06-14 21:41 ` David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:48 ` Kip Macy ` (2 more replies) 3 siblings, 3 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kip Macy; +Cc: nick, Linux Kernel List Kip Macy writes: > The acenic is definitely a kick-ass card. One's natural > inclination is to assume that an interface is obscured because > it is second rate. No, that's not my take. My personal view is that 3com thinks that allowing anyone to program the card like that was the biggest mistake Alteon made with the Acenic. Heh, "heavy intellectual property", it's a friggin' cpu that can access the cards onboard memory and registers. Sounds like just another Acenic with a new PCI front-end to me. If they are referring to their IPSEC microcode when they say this, we don't care about that just show us how to program the chip and we'll write our own :-) Later, David S. Miller davem@redhat.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:48 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:51 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-25 15:45 ` Jes Sorensen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: Kip Macy, nick, Linux Kernel List On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, David S. Miller wrote: > > No, that's not my take. My personal view is that 3com thinks that > allowing anyone to program the card like that was the biggest mistake > Alteon made with the Acenic. > Why do you think that they think that? Alteon certainly avoids exerting itself in supporting the open firmware kit, so cost is not a good justification. What do they lose? -Kip ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:48 ` Kip Macy @ 2001-06-14 21:51 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-25 15:45 ` Jes Sorensen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: David S. Miller @ 2001-06-14 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kip Macy; +Cc: nick, Linux Kernel List Kip Macy writes: > Why do you think that they think that? They are going to provide a proprietary ipsec module object for Linux. That's pissing off a bunch of folks right? Well, what are you able to do about it without docs on how to program the tigon3 on-board cpus? Right? The name of the game is control. Later, David S. Miller davem@redhat.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:48 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:51 ` David S. Miller @ 2001-06-25 15:45 ` Jes Sorensen 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Jes Sorensen @ 2001-06-25 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David S. Miller; +Cc: Kip Macy, nick, Linux Kernel List >>>>> "David" == David S Miller <davem@redhat.com> writes: David> Kip Macy writes: >> The acenic is definitely a kick-ass card. One's natural inclination >> is to assume that an interface is obscured because it is second >> rate. David> No, that's not my take. My personal view is that 3com thinks David> that allowing anyone to program the card like that was the David> biggest mistake Alteon made with the Acenic. Of course one then goes to wonder why the AceNIC suddenly became the most sold Gigabit Ethernet card on the market ... oh my, I love 3Com's way of thinking ;-( Jes (yes I know it's late responding to this) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
* Re: 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor 2001-06-12 0:24 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 0:29 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-12 16:12 ` Pavel Machek @ 2001-06-12 16:27 ` Alan Cox 2 siblings, 0 replies; 36+ messages in thread From: Alan Cox @ 2001-06-12 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Brent D. Norris; +Cc: Linux Kernel List > I just had one of the "3com Etherlink 10/100 PCI NIC with 3XP processor" > float accross my desk, I was wondering how much the linux kernel uses the > 3xp processor for its encryption offloading and such. According to the > hype it does DES without using the CPU, does linux take advantage of that? No. Sell the card to a windows user buy a cheap taiwanese mass market ethernet and spend the rest on the faster CPU. I bet that is more cost effective for DES performance.. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 36+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-06-25 15:46 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 36+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2001-06-12 0:24 3com Driver and the 3XP Processor Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 0:29 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-12 0:43 ` Brent D. Norris 2001-06-12 1:18 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-12 16:24 ` Alan Cox 2001-06-12 16:12 ` Pavel Machek 2001-06-13 10:30 ` James Sutherland 2001-06-14 19:13 ` Brent D. Norris 2001-06-14 21:13 ` Martin Moerman 2001-06-14 21:18 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:26 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:32 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:37 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-15 2:50 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson 2001-06-15 2:47 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson 2001-06-15 2:51 ` nick 2001-06-15 4:01 ` [OT] " Brent D. Norris 2001-06-15 14:45 ` Alan Cox 2001-06-15 14:59 ` Venkatesh Ramamurthy 2001-06-17 16:35 ` Pavel Machek 2001-06-16 9:04 ` Martin Moerman 2001-06-14 21:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:40 ` nick 2001-06-14 21:40 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:41 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:12 ` Pete Wyckoff 2001-06-15 15:37 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-15 15:52 ` Pekka Pietikainen 2001-06-16 9:12 ` Martin Moerman 2001-06-18 14:43 ` Jamie Lokier 2001-06-25 15:42 ` Jes Sorensen 2001-06-14 21:45 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-14 21:48 ` Kip Macy 2001-06-14 21:51 ` David S. Miller 2001-06-25 15:45 ` Jes Sorensen 2001-06-12 16:27 ` Alan Cox
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