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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
To: Matthew Dharm <mdharm-kernel@one-eyed-alien.net>
Cc: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>, <linux-usb-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [BK PATCH] USB changes for 2.5.34
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:59:32 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0209091951550.1911-100000@home.transmeta.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0209091926320.1911-100000@home.transmeta.com>


On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> Which basically means that a driver that uses BUG() for something that
> isn't certain to be fatal anyway is a BUGGY driver.

There are probably good exceptions to this rule, like any rule.

For example, if the request queue (or some other fundamental internal data
structure) is found to be corrupted, I couldn't really fault a driver for
BUG()'ing out on it. It's not as if the driver could sanely even do an 
end_request() in that case.

But even broken hardware is not a reason for a BUG(). For example, if the
driver notices that some part of the controller is hung hard (ie provable
hardware problem), the last thing it should do is to bring the system
down. It should fail the IO, and maybe turn itself off, but let the system 
continue otherwise.

One of the best things I ever did from a debuggability standpoint was to 
almost never use panic() in the base kernel, and make various kernel page 
faults etc just try to kill the offender and go on.

Sometimes that "try to continue" approach ends up being nasty too (the
problem repeats and you end up with a dead machine that scrolls infinite
bug reports off the screen, making them really hard to catch), but on the
whole it tends to make things much easier to debug ("oops, I just lost my
floppy drive, let's save the messages on the harddisk and reboot").

			Linus


  reply	other threads:[~2002-09-10  2:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-09-09 22:17 [BK PATCH] USB changes for 2.5.34 Greg KH
2002-09-10  0:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10  0:19   ` Greg KH
2002-09-10  0:30     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10  0:40       ` [linux-usb-devel] " Alan Cox
2002-09-10  1:41         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10  1:48           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10 10:23     ` Andries Brouwer
2002-09-10  0:35   ` Nicholas Miell
2002-09-10  1:01     ` [patch] dump_stack(): arch-neutral stack trace Andrew Morton
2002-09-15  4:34       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-15  4:51         ` Andrew Morton
2002-09-10  1:27     ` [BK PATCH] USB changes for 2.5.34 Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10  2:07   ` Matthew Dharm
2002-09-10  2:49     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10  2:59       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2002-09-10 16:32       ` [linux-usb-devel] " David Brownell
2002-09-10 16:51         ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10 17:16           ` Jeff Garzik
2002-09-10 18:16             ` David S. Miller
2002-09-10 18:40               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10 18:48                 ` Jeff Garzik
2002-09-10 19:31                 ` David S. Miller
2002-09-10 19:32                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-10 19:38                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10 19:43                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-09-10 21:52                   ` Bill Davidsen
2002-09-10 22:02                     ` Jeff Garzik
2002-09-10 18:44           ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 19:03             ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-10 19:27               ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-10 20:18                 ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 22:00                 ` David Woodhouse
2002-09-10 22:23                   ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 22:26                   ` David Woodhouse
2002-09-10 23:01                     ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 19:29               ` David S. Miller
2002-09-15  5:10               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-15  5:33                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-09-15 16:41                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  0:32                     ` Horst von Brand
2002-09-15  6:07                 ` Pete Zaitcev
2002-09-15  7:00                   ` Andrew Morton
2002-09-15 14:53                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-15 18:23                     ` Pete Zaitcev
2002-09-15 18:34                       ` Jeff Garzik
2002-09-16  0:55                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-15 20:05                   ` David Woodhouse
2002-09-15 21:35                   ` Rob Landley
2002-09-16  3:00                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-16  3:08                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 11:16                       ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-09-16 18:35                       ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-16 18:45                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 19:36                           ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-16 19:40                             ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  8:50                     ` Ian Molton
2002-09-16  9:37                       ` Rob Landley
2002-09-15 18:06                 ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-15 18:36                   ` Roman Zippel
2002-09-15 19:04                   ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2002-09-15 19:43                     ` Andrew Morton
2002-09-15 19:43                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-15 23:24                     ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-15 23:41                       ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2002-09-15 23:52                         ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-16  0:01                           ` Robert Love
2002-09-16  1:29                           ` Alan Cox
2002-09-16  2:13                             ` Larry McVoy
2002-09-16 11:05                               ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2002-09-16 14:05                               ` Rogier Wolff
2002-09-16 16:24                               ` Marco Colombo
2002-09-16  0:44                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  1:23                       ` Alan Cox
2002-09-15 19:07                   ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  9:06                     ` Jens Axboe
2002-09-16 15:15                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16 15:59                         ` kernel debuggers was [Re: [linux-usb-devel] Re: [BK PATCH] USB changes for 2.5.34] Soewono Effendi
2002-09-16 14:14                     ` [linux-usb-devel] Re: [BK PATCH] USB changes for 2.5.34 David Woodhouse
2002-09-16 14:53                       ` Jens Axboe
2002-09-15 19:08                   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-15 19:10                     ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-15 19:26                       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-15 19:32                         ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2002-09-15 19:48                           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  4:59                             ` Jeff Dike
2002-09-16  4:05                               ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  4:55                           ` Jeff Dike
2002-09-15 19:35                         ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-16  4:51                       ` Jeff Dike
2002-09-16 15:29                     ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-18  0:33                   ` Rusty Russell
2002-09-18  0:46                     ` Linus Torvalds
2002-09-18  0:50                       ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-18  1:16                         ` Rik van Riel
2002-09-15 13:54               ` Rogier Wolff
2002-09-15  5:01           ` Daniel Phillips
2002-09-10 16:46       ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-10 16:56         ` Vojtech Pavlik

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