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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: john stultz <johnstul@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
	Vojtech Pavlik <vojtech@suse.cz>,
	Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>,
	dean gaudet <dean-list-linux-kernel@arctic.org>,
	Chris Wedgwood <cw@f00f.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>,
	dtor_core@ameritech.net, david.lang@digitalinsight.com,
	davidsen@tmr.com, kernel@kolivas.org,
	lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	mbligh@mbligh.org, diegocg@gmail.com, azarah@nosferatu.za.org,
	christoph@lameter.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 13:13:12 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0507141307060.19183@g5.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1121370122.7673.161.camel@cog.beaverton.ibm.com>



On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, john stultz wrote:
> 
> We'll I'd probably put it as: "they do care about absolute time, but
> they do not care about ticks or timer interrupt frequency"

Well, the thing is, you have to count time some sane way.

You can do it by having very expensive data structures that say "real
time", but then you have some serious confusion when it comes to things
like whether it's wallclock time (which might have shifts and other
interesting issues) or some "virtual cpu time". You also end up having a
much much more expensive interface, ie "time_after()" ends up being a much
more complicated test.

So the _sane_ way to do timeouts is to define an _arbitrary_ clock that is 
just an integer counter. None of this "nanoseconds + full seconds" crap. 
None of this stupid confusion with "real time". You select something that 
is conceptually _clearly_ somethign else, and that will never get confused 
when root sets the time backwards or anything like that.

In other words, you select the thing we call "jiffies".

Face it, it is just _superior_ to the alternatives. The alternative is to
have some "fake time" aka "struct timespec", and always have to worry
about normalization and complicated comparisons, and using more memory 
too, btw.

There is no way to avoid having some kind of counter to specify time.  
NONE. The only choice is what you base your notion of time on, and how you
represent it. Do you represent it as two separate counters and try to make
it look like "fractions of seconds", or do you represent it as a single
counter, and make it look like "ticks".

And the single counter is _simpler_. The alternatives have absolutely 
_zero_ upsides. Name _one_. 

		Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2005-07-14 20:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 238+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <200506231828.j5NISlCe020350@hera.kernel.org>
2005-07-08 21:49 ` [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-08 21:59   ` Andrew Morton
2005-07-08 22:05     ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-08 22:08     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-10 10:45       ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-07-08 22:22     ` Lee Revell
2005-07-08 22:33       ` Andrew Morton
2005-07-08 22:59     ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-08 23:03       ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-08 23:14         ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-08 23:29           ` David S. Miller
2005-07-08 23:40             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 17:08     ` Martin Schlemmer
2005-07-09 18:16       ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 18:31         ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-07-09 18:33           ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-09 18:36           ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 19:12             ` Andrew Morton
2005-07-09 19:16               ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 20:30                 ` randy_dunlap
2005-07-09 21:25                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 23:30                     ` Randy Dunlap
2005-07-11 18:35                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-11 13:23                 ` Alan Cox
2005-07-11 14:05                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2005-07-11 14:08                     ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-07-11 15:18                       ` Alan Cox
2005-07-12  2:13                       ` Eric St-Laurent
2005-07-11 16:02                     ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-15 12:17                       ` Pavel Machek
2005-07-13 15:59                     ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-13 16:47                       ` Lee Revell
2005-07-10  0:44           ` pmarques
2005-07-09 18:39         ` Diego Calleja
2005-07-09 18:41           ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 18:49             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-09 18:50               ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-11 18:38             ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-11 20:25               ` Lee Revell
2005-07-11 20:39                 ` Chris Friesen
2005-07-12  0:30                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12  4:07                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-12  4:13                       ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12  4:30                         ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-12 14:21                           ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12 14:24                           ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12 14:56                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-12 15:00                               ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12 15:08                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-12 15:10                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12 15:22                                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-12 19:30                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12 20:58                           ` Lee Revell
2005-07-12 22:22                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-13  5:37                               ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 10:38                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2005-07-13 18:42                                 ` High irq load (Re: [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt) Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 14:25                                   ` Peter Osterlund
2005-07-18  5:53                                     ` Herbert Poetzl
2005-07-12  0:38               ` [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt George Anzinger
2005-07-12 12:10                 ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-12 12:39                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-07-12 12:52                     ` Con Kolivas
2005-07-12 15:57                       ` George Anzinger
2005-07-12 16:27                         ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-13 16:26                           ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-13 16:46                             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 17:24                             ` David Lang
2005-07-13 18:42                               ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-13 19:10                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-13 19:13                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 19:32                                     ` Dmitry Torokhov
2005-07-13 19:33                                       ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-13 20:02                                         ` Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
2005-07-13 20:17                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 20:24                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 20:48                                         ` Andrew Morton
2005-07-13 21:16                                           ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-13 21:24                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 21:35                                               ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-13 21:37                                               ` Chris Friesen
2005-07-13 21:56                                               ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-13 23:07                                               ` George Anzinger
2005-07-13 21:29                                             ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-13 21:30                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-13 23:41                                             ` dean gaudet
2005-07-14  0:07                                               ` Petr Vandrovec
2005-07-14  9:24                                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2005-07-14 14:20                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-14 18:05                                                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2005-07-14 18:20                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14  0:51                                               ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-14  1:13                                                 ` dean gaudet
2005-07-14  1:33                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-14  1:54                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14  7:42                                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-07-14 12:13                                                         ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-14 16:37                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 17:02                                                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2005-07-14 17:21                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 19:09                                                                 ` Russell King
2005-07-14 20:06                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 20:30                                                                     ` Russell King
2005-07-15  8:15                                                                     ` Gerd Knorr
2005-07-14 20:38                                                                 ` Johannes Stezenbach
2005-07-14 17:42                                                               ` Al Boldi
2005-07-14 19:42                                                               ` john stultz
2005-07-14 20:13                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2005-07-14 20:41                                                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2005-07-14 23:03                                                                     ` Chris Wedgwood
2005-07-14 21:54                                                                   ` john stultz
2005-07-14 22:43                                                                   ` Alan Cox
2005-07-14 23:19                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-15 12:33                                                                       ` Alan Cox
2005-07-14 17:10                                                             ` Chris Friesen
2005-07-14 17:24                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 19:18                                                             ` john stultz
2005-07-14 22:37                                                             ` Alan Cox
2005-07-14 23:13                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 23:32                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-15  1:17                                                               ` Eric St-Laurent
2005-07-14 23:17                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-14 23:25                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 23:41                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-14 23:49                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-14 23:53                                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-07-15 12:42                                                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-14 23:57                                                                     ` Lee Revell
2005-07-15  2:30                                                                     ` Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
2005-07-15 12:46                                                                       ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-15 16:46                                                                         ` Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
2005-07-30  5:49                                                                     ` [GIT PATCH] ACPI patches for 2.6.13 Len Brown
2005-07-30  9:58                                                                       ` [ACPI] " Pavel Machek
2005-08-03 23:16                                                                       ` [GIT PATCH] ACPI patches for 2.6.13-rc5 Len Brown
2005-08-04 17:11                                                                         ` [GIT PATCH] ACPI patches for 2.6.13-rc5+ Len Brown
2005-08-15 20:35                                                                           ` [GIT PATCH] ACPI patch for 2.6.13-rc6 Len Brown
2005-07-14 23:50                                                                 ` [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt Lee Revell
2005-07-15  4:08                                                                 ` Con Kolivas
2005-07-15  4:17                                                                   ` Lee Revell
2005-07-15  4:54                                                                     ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2005-07-15 16:59                                                                       ` Lee Revell
2005-07-15 14:51                                                                         ` kernel
2005-07-14 18:00                                                           ` Andrew Morton
2005-07-14  8:38                                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2005-07-14 14:55                                                         ` Lee Revell
2005-07-14 15:02                                                           ` Christoph Lameter
2005-07-14 15:25                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-15 11:38                                                             ` [OT] high precision hardware (was Re: [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt) Paul Jakma
2005-07-15 15:57                                                               ` Christoph Lameter
2005-07-15 16:13                                                                 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-14  2:08                                                   ` [PATCH] i386: Selectable Frequency of the Timer Interrupt Lee Revell
2005-07-14  9:56                                                     ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2005-07-15  0:04                                             ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-15  0:15                                               ` Lee Revell
2005-07-15  0:17                                                 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-15  0:42                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-15  8:41                                                     ` Russell King
2005-07-15  0:24                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-15  1:40                                                   ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-15  2:00                                                   ` Eric St-Laurent
2005-07-15 19:58                                                     ` Stephen Pollei
2005-07-16  5:16                                                       ` Eric St-Laurent
2005-07-15  2:07                                                   ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-15  9:36                                                     ` Matthias Urlichs
2005-07-15  3:46                                                   ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-15  5:04                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2005-07-15 13:12                                                       ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-17  2:13                                                         ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-17  2:35                                                           ` Lee Revell
2005-07-17  2:35                                                           ` Nish Aravamudan
2005-07-17  3:55                                                             ` Lee Revell
2005-07-23 23:40                                                               ` randy_dunlap
2005-07-25 13:26                                                                 ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-23 23:48                                                     ` randy_dunlap
2005-07-23 23:52                                                       ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-24 12:58                                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-15  8:44                                                   ` Russell King
2005-07-15 15:41                                           ` Pavel Machek
2005-07-13 20:02                                     ` Diego Calleja
2005-07-13 19:35                                   ` Benjamin LaHaise
2005-07-13 19:41                                     ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-13 19:53                                       ` Benjamin LaHaise
2005-07-14 10:04                                         ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2005-07-13 19:52                                   ` George Anzinger
2005-07-13 23:54                                   ` Con Kolivas
2005-07-14  0:43                                     ` George Anzinger
2005-07-14 10:25                                   ` Krzysztof Halasa
2005-07-14 12:19                                     ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-14 21:19                                       ` Krzysztof Halasa
2005-07-15  1:19                               ` Bill Davidsen
2005-07-12 13:30                     ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-12 14:05                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2005-07-12 16:07                         ` Vojtech Pavlik
2005-07-12 15:26                       ` [PATCH] " Martin J. Bligh
2005-07-12 17:50                         ` john stultz
2005-07-12 22:30                           ` Nishanth Aravamudan
2005-07-12 17:56                 ` john stultz
2005-07-12  0:45               ` Lee Revell
2005-07-11 13:18     ` Alan Cox
     [not found] <F7DC2337C7631D4386A2DF6E8FB22B300410F46A@hdsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com.suse.lists.linux.kernel>
2005-07-15 17:02 ` Andi Kleen
2005-07-15 17:23   ` Venkatesh Pallipadi
2005-07-15 17:54     ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2005-07-15 17:58       ` Andi Kleen
2005-07-18 10:47         ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2005-07-15 18:01       ` Venkatesh Pallipadi
2005-07-18 11:17         ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2005-07-15 17:57     ` Andi Kleen
2005-07-15 18:09       ` Venkatesh Pallipadi
2005-07-15 16:33 Brown, Len
2005-07-15 16:54 ` Chris Wedgwood
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-07-14 21:35 Brown, Len
2005-07-15  9:37 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2005-05-16 19:45 christoph
2005-05-16 20:51 ` Lee Revell
2005-05-17  0:55   ` christoph
2005-05-17 23:25     ` Lee Revell
2005-05-17 23:48       ` Nish Aravamudan
2005-05-18  0:03       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-05-18  0:08         ` Lee Revell
2005-05-16 22:09 ` Andrew Morton
2005-05-17  2:38   ` Christoph Lameter
2005-05-17  2:46     ` randy_dunlap
2005-05-17  2:55       ` Christoph Lameter
2005-05-17  3:01         ` randy_dunlap
2005-05-17  3:37         ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-17  3:40           ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-17 10:51             ` Paulo Marques
2005-05-17 13:19               ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-17  5:31           ` Christoph Lameter
2005-05-17 13:44             ` Joe Korty
2005-05-17 13:58               ` Andi Kleen
2005-05-17 15:43               ` Christoph Lameter
2005-05-18 18:50           ` Pavel Machek
2005-05-18 19:03             ` Lee Revell
2005-05-18 20:41               ` Tony Lindgren
2005-05-18 19:25             ` Linus Torvalds
2005-05-18 20:46               ` Tony Lindgren
2005-05-17  3:01     ` Coywolf Qi Hunt

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