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From: Miles Bader <miles@lsi.nec.co.jp>
To: dpaun@rogers.com
Cc: rms@gnu.org, lm@bitmover.com, acahalan@cs.uml.edu,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently"
Date: 08 Jan 2003 11:29:47 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <buofzs474ro.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200301071118.41059.dpaun@rogers.com>

"Dimitrie O. Paun" <dpaun@rogers.com> writes:
> I know you have a very strong sentimental attachment to GNU,
> and that's more than understandable. But in the great scheme of things,
> it's a minor issue. As much as you like them to, people don't attach 
> semantics to names. Period. They just want a catchy label, and that's all. 

I think you're quite wrong -- names are very important, much more so
than it may seem at first.

If someone's mom (having heard the gossip) asks their computer-literate
child, `What is this XXX thing, anyway?', the answer is likely to be
very different when XXX is "GNU" as opposed to when XXX is "Linux".

The reason is that GNU _starts_ with freedom as an idea, and builds
software on top of that; it's very hard to explain GNU without explaining
freedom too.  Most people that associate themself with the `Linux'
movement, OTOH, seem to start with `look at all the cool stuff it does;'
the freedom part, even for those that care about it, seems to remain on
the periphery (I hope I don't piss anyone off with this characterization,
this is just what I've observed!).

Which approach is the right one obviously depends on your priorities, but
it's pretty clear to me that these respective groups of people _do_
associate themselves with the names.  I think that's one reason Richard's
attempts to get people to use GNU/linux have met with such strong
resistance (yeah, I know it's not the _only_ reason).

Perhaps, if everyone starting using `GNU/linux,' it would actually
_dilute_ the meaning of GNU, since many people that had no idea about what
GNU means would suddenly start using it just because someone told them the
name had changed from Linux.  None-the-less, I think it would have some
of the opposite effect too, making people that previously never thought
about it wonder `what's this GNU?'

On a slight tangent:  I bought an electronic english/japanese dictionary
about 8 years ago, and it happened to have a definition of GNU in it,
complete with a short (and I think accurate) description of free software!
Recently I bought a new dictionary; it doesn't define GNU, but it does
contain a definition of `Linux' -- and the summary is `a competitor to
windows'!  It then goes into further detail saying it's `freeware'
(free-beer free), and worked on cooperatively by its users, but no
mention of `freedom' as such; it's clear the dicionary makers were just a
bit confused, but I wonder if they'd have gotten it right if the name
contained `GNU', with its strong associations with freedom...

-Miles
-- 
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
  --Albert Einstein

  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-08  2:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-01-05  8:02 Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Albert D. Cahalan
2003-01-06 17:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:37   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-06 19:40     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-06 23:33     ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-07 15:47       ` Disconnect
2003-01-07 13:40     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:26       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-08  8:00         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 13:51           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-09 23:14             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:24               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  5:33               ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-10  6:07                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-10  6:31                   ` Miles Bader
2003-01-10 14:17                 ` Charles Cazabon
2003-01-11  1:36                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  4:06                   ` John Jasen
2003-01-11  7:13                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-08 21:29           ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-09  2:26           ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-09  8:57             ` John Alvord
2003-01-09 15:18               ` What's in a name? Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-09 16:11                 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-09 16:51                   ` venom
2003-01-09 17:48                   ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-10  9:52               ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Richard Stallman
2003-01-10 16:05                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-10 18:38                 ` Names as origin component paths Mark Mielke
2003-01-10 18:41                 ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Rogier Wolff
2003-01-12 11:55                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 12:27                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-13 14:32                     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 17:09                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-13 17:22                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 17:37                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-13 18:48                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-14 18:55                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:06                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-14 19:56                                   ` [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Dax Kelson
2003-01-14 20:02                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-14 20:19                                       ` Olivier Galibert
2003-01-14 20:36                                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-14 20:45                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-15 23:28                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 21:08                                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 21:51                                           ` Chris Funderburg
2003-01-14 22:13                                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-14 22:27                                           ` Wakko Warner
2003-01-15 16:39                                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-16 23:12                                             ` Adrian Bunk
2003-01-15 23:28                                           ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-16  2:51                                             ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-18  0:47                                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-18  0:56                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-19  1:36                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-19  5:55                                                     ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-18  3:01                                                 ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-18 14:23                                                   ` andrea.glorioso
2003-01-20  0:50                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-20  1:46                                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-21 18:17                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-21 18:30                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-21 18:55                                                         ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-07-20  2:42                                                       ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 19:30                                                         ` Brian McGroarty
2003-07-20 22:00                                                           ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-01-16  5:23                                             ` Steve Lee
2003-01-18  0:47                                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-20 13:38                                                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-22  9:59                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-22 10:19                                                     ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-22 11:05                                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-01-22 12:56                                                     ` Dave Jones
2003-01-22 16:21                                                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-23 11:37                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-23 13:17                                                         ` Murray J. Root
2003-01-23 18:15                                                         ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-24  0:41                                                           ` [PATCH] [2.4.20] dead code: remove /proc/sys/vm/kswapd Lamont Granquist
2003-07-20  2:27                                                       ` [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20  8:09                                                         ` Florian Weimer
2003-07-20  8:49                                                           ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 10:55                                                             ` Wichert Akkerman
2003-07-20 21:52                                                               ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 22:09                                                                 ` Wichert Akkerman
2003-07-20 22:38                                                                   ` David Lloyd
2003-01-22 16:44                                                     ` John Alvord
2003-01-23  1:31                                                       ` Nick Matteo
2003-01-20 16:52                                                 ` Jerry Cooperstein
2003-01-22 17:14                                                 ` Jan Harkes
2003-01-14 20:27                                       ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:51                                         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15  8:42                                           ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:42                                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15 12:47                                       ` Gaël Le Mignot
2003-01-14 20:15                                     ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:32                                   ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15 12:44                                   ` Gaël Le Mignot
2003-01-14 22:20                                 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2003-01-13 17:51                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 18:54                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:14             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:39               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-10  0:01               ` Linux/Hurd vs GNU/Linux (was Re: Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently") Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-07 16:18       ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-08  2:29         ` Miles Bader [this message]
2003-01-09  7:20           ` "Mother" == "computer-illiterate" Val Henson
2003-01-09  8:05             ` J Sloan
2003-01-09 13:14             ` Miles Bader
2003-01-09 14:35             ` Kent Borg
2003-01-09 19:40             ` Val Henson
2003-01-09 20:21               ` jlnance
2003-01-09 20:30                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-10  1:34                   ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-09 20:46                 ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-09 21:12                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-09 21:11                     ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-12 11:56                   ` Kristian Koehntopp
2003-01-09 23:11               ` Alan Cox
2003-01-09 22:41                 ` John Adams
2003-01-10  1:24                 ` Chris Adams
2003-01-10  2:15                   ` jdow
2003-01-10  3:20                     ` Val Henson
2003-01-10  4:23                     ` Tom Diehl
2003-01-10 10:35                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10  7:04             ` Tim Timmerman
2003-01-09  7:28         ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  6:44           ` Dimitrie O. Paun
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-01-15 20:08 Thomas Hood
2003-01-15 20:25 ` Mark Hounschell
     [not found] <20030112070914.AAA21737%shell.webmaster.com@whenever>
2003-01-12 14:40 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12  7:13 David Schwartz
2003-01-12  6:16 Mark Mielke
2003-01-12  7:09 ` David Schwartz
2003-01-10 15:29 Larry Sendlosky
2003-01-11  1:58 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  2:07   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  2:13     ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  2:17       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  2:38         ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  2:41           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  2:46             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11 21:44           ` Kurt Garloff
2003-01-11 21:53             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11 22:16               ` Chief Gadgeteer
2003-01-11 22:26               ` Kurt Garloff
2003-01-11 23:23                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12  3:33                   ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-12  3:43                     ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12  4:19                     ` David Schwartz
2003-01-13 13:51                       ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-12  4:00                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-12  4:04                     ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12  7:47                     ` Chuck Wolber
2003-01-11 22:36               ` Vojtech Pavlik
2003-01-11 22:57                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-12 11:13                   ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-11  3:26     ` Alan Cox
2003-01-11  2:54       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  2:58         ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  3:11           ` Zwane Mwaikambo
2003-01-11  3:14             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  3:16           ` John Adams
2003-01-11  3:35             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  3:48               ` Hans Sgier
2003-01-11  3:55                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  4:41               ` J Sloan
2003-01-11  4:44                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  5:09                   ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-11 15:57                   ` Tom Sightler
2003-01-11  3:27           ` Brian Tinsley
     [not found]             ` <1042256385.1259.106.camel@RobsPC.RobertWilkens.com>
2003-01-11  4:16               ` Brian Tinsley
2003-01-11  3:52           ` yodaiken
2003-01-11  4:05             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  5:45               ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-01-11  6:01           ` Tomas Szepe
2003-01-11 15:03             ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11 19:41               ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-11 21:18                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  6:32         ` Ryan Anderson
2003-01-11  2:55       ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  3:20   ` Tom Sightler
2003-01-11 19:48     ` Mark Mielke
     [not found] <fa.gm4r3cv.1r4avpq@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.hq6mucv.l4qg1c@ifi.uio.no>
2003-01-08 15:02   ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2003-01-08 20:53     ` Jon Portnoy
2003-01-09 23:13     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:45       ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-03 22:24 Shureih, Tariq
2003-01-03 23:06 ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 21:52 Steven Barnhart
2003-01-04  0:18 ` Florian Weimer
2003-01-03 21:50 NVidia " Steven Barnhart
2003-01-03 20:31 Nvidia " Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 21:20 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03 21:28 ` Christoph Hellwig
2003-01-03 21:32   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-03 22:09   ` Ranjeet Shetye
2003-01-04  0:02     ` Lionel Bouton
2003-01-03 22:59   ` Måns Rullgård
2003-01-04 23:45   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04  4:37 ` Mark Rutherford
2003-01-01  2:41 Hell.Surfers
2003-01-01  9:36 ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-02 18:38   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-02 18:49     ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-02 19:02     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-02 19:31     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-03  7:50       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03  7:56         ` Mark Hahn
2003-01-03 20:30           ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03 11:17         ` venom
2003-01-03 11:49           ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 13:11             ` venom
2003-01-03 14:58             ` Bill Davidsen
2003-01-03 15:25               ` Andrew Walrond
2003-01-03 15:48                 ` Hugo Mills
2003-01-03 20:30           ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-03  1:01     ` Mike Galbraith
2003-01-03  7:50       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-04 22:14     ` Matthias Andree

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