From: Michal Kazior <michal.kazior@tieto.com>
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
Cc: linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>,
Emmanuel Grumbach <emmanuel.grumbach@intel.com>,
Network Development <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
"ath10k@lists.infradead.org" <ath10k@lists.infradead.org>,
codel@lists.bufferbloat.net,
make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net,
Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
Tim Shepard <shep@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [RFCv2 1/3] mac80211: implement fq_codel for software queuing
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:51:06 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+BoTQ=PWCK6cq83sthqRRt0xYWBOORbb=0+QHM6XVaWCWVhDw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1603211830000.26766@nftneq.ynat.uz>
On 22 March 2016 at 02:35, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2016, Michal Kazior wrote:
>
>> Since 11n aggregation become important to get the
>> best out of txops. However aggregation inherently
>> requires buffering and queuing. Once variable
>> medium conditions to different associated stations
>> is considered it became apparent that bufferbloat
>> can't be simply fought with qdiscs for wireless
>> drivers.
>
> If the network is quiet enough, don't do any buffering, but in almost all
> situations you are going to need to buffer starting no later than the second
> packet you try to send.
>
> Don't try to make queueing occur, just deal with the queues that form
> naturally because you can't transmit data any faster (and work to keep them
> under some semblence of control)
[...]
This is what already happens. Queues typically start to build up when
hardware tx fifos/queues become busy so by the time they become
available you might have a bunch of frames you can aggregate.
The patch is more about getting rid of qdiscs because it's inherently
hard to teach them how 802.11 aggregation works (per-station per-tid)
and the ever-changing nature of per-station tx conditions.
I'll update the commit log to better reflect what is being done.
Michał
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Michal Kazior <michal.kazior@tieto.com>
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
Cc: Emmanuel Grumbach <emmanuel.grumbach@intel.com>,
Network Development <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>,
"ath10k@lists.infradead.org" <ath10k@lists.infradead.org>,
codel@lists.bufferbloat.net,
make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net,
Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
Tim Shepard <shep@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [RFCv2 1/3] mac80211: implement fq_codel for software queuing
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:51:06 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+BoTQ=PWCK6cq83sthqRRt0xYWBOORbb=0+QHM6XVaWCWVhDw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1603211830000.26766@nftneq.ynat.uz>
On 22 March 2016 at 02:35, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2016, Michal Kazior wrote:
>
>> Since 11n aggregation become important to get the
>> best out of txops. However aggregation inherently
>> requires buffering and queuing. Once variable
>> medium conditions to different associated stations
>> is considered it became apparent that bufferbloat
>> can't be simply fought with qdiscs for wireless
>> drivers.
>
> If the network is quiet enough, don't do any buffering, but in almost all
> situations you are going to need to buffer starting no later than the second
> packet you try to send.
>
> Don't try to make queueing occur, just deal with the queues that form
> naturally because you can't transmit data any faster (and work to keep them
> under some semblence of control)
[...]
This is what already happens. Queues typically start to build up when
hardware tx fifos/queues become busy so by the time they become
available you might have a bunch of frames you can aggregate.
The patch is more about getting rid of qdiscs because it's inherently
hard to teach them how 802.11 aggregation works (per-station per-tid)
and the ever-changing nature of per-station tx conditions.
I'll update the commit log to better reflect what is being done.
Michał
_______________________________________________
Codel mailing list
Codel@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/codel
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Michal Kazior <michal.kazior@tieto.com>
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
Cc: Emmanuel Grumbach <emmanuel.grumbach@intel.com>,
Network Development <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>,
"ath10k@lists.infradead.org" <ath10k@lists.infradead.org>,
codel@lists.bufferbloat.net,
make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net,
Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
Tim Shepard <shep@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [RFCv2 1/3] mac80211: implement fq_codel for software queuing
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 07:51:06 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+BoTQ=PWCK6cq83sthqRRt0xYWBOORbb=0+QHM6XVaWCWVhDw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1603211830000.26766@nftneq.ynat.uz>
On 22 March 2016 at 02:35, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2016, Michal Kazior wrote:
>
>> Since 11n aggregation become important to get the
>> best out of txops. However aggregation inherently
>> requires buffering and queuing. Once variable
>> medium conditions to different associated stations
>> is considered it became apparent that bufferbloat
>> can't be simply fought with qdiscs for wireless
>> drivers.
>
> If the network is quiet enough, don't do any buffering, but in almost all
> situations you are going to need to buffer starting no later than the second
> packet you try to send.
>
> Don't try to make queueing occur, just deal with the queues that form
> naturally because you can't transmit data any faster (and work to keep them
> under some semblence of control)
[...]
This is what already happens. Queues typically start to build up when
hardware tx fifos/queues become busy so by the time they become
available you might have a bunch of frames you can aggregate.
The patch is more about getting rid of qdiscs because it's inherently
hard to teach them how 802.11 aggregation works (per-station per-tid)
and the ever-changing nature of per-station tx conditions.
I'll update the commit log to better reflect what is being done.
Michał
_______________________________________________
ath10k mailing list
ath10k@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ath10k
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-03-22 6:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-03-16 10:17 [RFCv2 0/3] mac80211: implement fq codel Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` [RFCv2 1/3] mac80211: implement fq_codel for software queuing Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-22 1:35 ` [Make-wifi-fast] " David Lang
2016-03-22 1:35 ` David Lang
2016-03-22 1:35 ` David Lang
2016-03-22 6:51 ` Michal Kazior [this message]
2016-03-22 6:51 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-22 6:51 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` [RFCv2 2/3] ath10k: report per-station tx/rate rates to mac80211 Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-24 7:19 ` Mohammed Shafi Shajakhan
2016-03-24 7:19 ` Mohammed Shafi Shajakhan
2016-03-24 7:19 ` Mohammed Shafi Shajakhan
2016-03-24 7:49 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-24 7:49 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-24 7:49 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-24 12:23 ` Mohammed Shafi Shajakhan
2016-03-24 12:23 ` Mohammed Shafi Shajakhan
2016-03-24 12:31 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-24 12:31 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-24 12:31 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` [RFCv2 3/3] ath10k: use ieee80211_tx_schedule() Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:17 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:26 ` [RFCv2 0/3] mac80211: implement fq codel Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 10:26 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-16 15:37 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-16 15:37 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-16 15:37 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-16 18:36 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-16 18:36 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-16 18:36 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-16 18:55 ` Bob Copeland
2016-03-16 18:55 ` Bob Copeland
2016-03-16 18:55 ` Bob Copeland
2016-03-16 19:48 ` Jasmine Strong
2016-03-17 8:55 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 8:55 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 8:55 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 11:12 ` Bob Copeland
2016-03-17 11:12 ` Bob Copeland
2016-03-17 17:00 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-17 17:00 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-17 17:00 ` Dave Taht
2016-03-17 17:24 ` [Codel] " Rick Jones
2016-03-17 17:24 ` Rick Jones
2016-03-17 17:24 ` Rick Jones
2016-03-21 11:57 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-21 11:57 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 9:43 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 9:43 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 9:43 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 9:03 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 9:03 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-17 9:03 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-25 9:27 ` [PATCH 0/2] mac80211: implement fq_codel Michal Kazior
2016-03-25 9:27 ` [PATCH 1/2] mac80211: implement fair queuing per txq Michal Kazior
2016-04-08 4:37 ` Avery Pennarun
2016-04-11 7:25 ` Michal Kazior
2016-03-25 9:27 ` [PATCH 2/2] mac80211: expose some txq/fq internals and knobs via debugfs Michal Kazior
2016-03-31 10:28 ` [PATCHv2 0/2] mac80211: implement fq_codel Michal Kazior
2016-03-31 10:28 ` [PATCHv2 1/2] mac80211: implement fair queuing per txq Michal Kazior
2016-04-05 13:57 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-05 14:32 ` Dave Taht
2016-04-06 7:21 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-06 17:39 ` Dave Taht
2016-04-07 8:53 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-06 5:35 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-06 6:03 ` [Make-wifi-fast] " Jonathan Morton
2016-04-06 7:16 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-06 16:46 ` Jonathan Morton
2016-04-06 7:19 ` Johannes Berg
2016-03-31 10:28 ` [PATCHv2 2/2] mac80211: expose some txq/fq internals and knobs via debugfs Michal Kazior
2016-04-14 12:18 ` [PATCHv3 0/5] mac80211: implement fq_codel Michal Kazior
2016-04-14 12:18 ` [PATCHv3 1/5] mac80211: skip netdev queue control with software queuing Michal Kazior
2016-04-16 22:21 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-18 5:39 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-14 12:18 ` [PATCHv3 2/5] mac80211: implement fair queueing per txq Michal Kazior
2016-04-16 22:23 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-16 22:25 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-18 5:16 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-18 12:31 ` [Codel] " Eric Dumazet
2016-04-18 13:36 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-19 9:10 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-14 12:18 ` [PATCHv3 3/5] mac80211: add debug knobs for fair queuing Michal Kazior
2016-04-14 12:18 ` [PATCHv3 4/5] mac80211: implement codel on fair queuing flows Michal Kazior
2016-04-16 22:29 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-18 5:31 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-18 12:38 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-19 9:06 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-19 9:31 ` Michal Kazior
2016-04-19 9:57 ` Johannes Berg
2016-04-14 12:18 ` [PATCHv3 5/5] mac80211: add debug knobs for codel Michal Kazior
2016-05-05 11:00 ` [PATCHv4 0/5] mac80211: implement fq_codel Michal Kazior
2016-05-05 11:00 ` [PATCHv4 1/5] mac80211: skip netdev queue control with software queuing Michal Kazior
2016-05-09 12:28 ` Michal Kazior
2016-05-05 11:00 ` [PATCHv4 2/5] mac80211: implement fair queueing per txq Michal Kazior
2016-05-05 11:00 ` [PATCHv4 3/5] mac80211: add debug knobs for fair queuing Michal Kazior
2016-06-09 9:48 ` Johannes Berg
2016-05-05 11:00 ` [PATCHv4 4/5] mac80211: implement codel on fair queuing flows Michal Kazior
2016-05-05 15:30 ` Dave Taht
2016-05-05 11:00 ` [PATCHv4 5/5] mac80211: add debug knobs for codel Michal Kazior
2016-05-05 15:21 ` Dave Taht
2016-05-06 5:27 ` Michal Kazior
2016-05-06 5:51 ` Dave Taht
2016-05-06 6:33 ` Michal Kazior
2016-05-06 7:23 ` Dave Taht
2016-05-19 8:37 ` [PATCHv5 0/5] mac80211: implement fq_codel Michal Kazior
2016-05-19 8:37 ` [PATCHv5 1/5] mac80211: skip netdev queue control with software queuing Michal Kazior
2016-05-19 8:37 ` [PATCHv5 2/5] mac80211: implement fair queueing per txq Michal Kazior
2016-05-19 8:37 ` [PATCHv5 3/5] mac80211: add debug knobs for fair queuing Michal Kazior
2016-05-19 8:37 ` [PATCHv5 4/5] mac80211: implement codel on fair queuing flows Michal Kazior
2016-05-19 8:37 ` [PATCHv5 5/5] mac80211: add debug knobs for codel Michal Kazior
2016-06-09 9:47 ` Johannes Berg
2016-05-31 12:12 ` [Make-wifi-fast] [PATCHv5 0/5] mac80211: implement fq_codel Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2016-05-31 12:31 ` Michal Kazior
2016-06-09 9:49 ` Johannes Berg
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