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From: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
To: Jeremy Allison <jra@samba.org>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	 Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] GPL defense issues
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:19:02 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1472246342.61594.625.camel@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160826193331.GA29084@jra3>

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On Fri, 2016-08-26 at 12:33 -0700, Jeremy Allison via Ksummit-discuss
wrote:
> These days we rely on Conservancy doing the kind of back-room negotiation
> that they are really good at, and they've never failed us on this. Lawsuits
> *are* a last-ditch nuclear option.

Without the option of a lawsuit, there *is* no negotiation. The GPL has
certain requirements and they are backed up by law. If you don't have
that, you might as well have a BSD licence.

You won't get far in negotiating with someone to release their
modifications if the code in question is under a BSD licence and you
start the conversation by saying "You need to release the changes you
made or... we'll be sad". And that's *precisely* the same as the GPL if
you state up front that you'll never sue. You'll just get laughed at.

Conservancy quite rightly use legal action as a last resort after all
other reasonable avenues have been exhausted. But you can't abandon it
completely.

And the idea that legal action against violators would scare away those
who are using the software *legally* is laughable. There is *always*
risk...

If you use commercial software and don't pay for the licence, you can
be sued.

If you use Free Software and don't comply with the licence, you can be
sued.

And even if you write it yourself, you have to be really careful your
engineers don't pick up code snippets they found on the Internet... or
you can be sued.

Whatever you do, you have to actually follow the rules and do it right.
Holding persistent violators to the rules the hard way, if they refuse
to do the right thing after years of negotiation, *really* shouldn't
scare off anyone sensible from using Free Software.

-- 
dwmw2

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  reply	other threads:[~2016-08-26 21:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 173+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-08-26 19:33 [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] GPL defense issues Jeremy Allison
2016-08-26 21:19 ` David Woodhouse [this message]
2016-08-26 21:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 22:42   ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-26 23:02     ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-26 23:58       ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27  0:19         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-27  1:30           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27  7:00           ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-26 23:54   ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-27 16:26     ` Greg KH
2016-08-27 21:18       ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28  1:43         ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  2:02           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28  3:10             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  4:42               ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28 20:51                 ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  4:24           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28 12:55             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28 14:06               ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-29  6:26                 ` Greg KH
2016-08-29 11:10                   ` Harald Welte
2016-08-30 17:38                   ` Mark Brown
2016-08-30 18:04                     ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 18:36                       ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-28 15:43               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28 19:36                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28 20:36                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 15:35                     ` Steven Rostedt
2016-08-29 15:51                       ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-29 19:45                         ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-29 16:26                     ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-30 17:13                     ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-28 16:26               ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28 19:58                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28 22:54                   ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-29  9:01                     ` Harald Welte
2016-08-30 16:15               ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 16:45                 ` Greg KH
2016-08-30 17:20                   ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 18:15                     ` Greg KH
2016-08-30 19:17                       ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-31  2:58                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-31 18:51                           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-31  8:37                         ` Greg KH
2016-08-31 18:53                           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 23:19                       ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 17:49                   ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-30 18:17                     ` Greg KH
2016-08-30 18:28                       ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-30 17:10                 ` James Bottomley
2016-08-30 17:16                   ` Luck, Tony
2016-08-30 17:40                     ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 17:37                   ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-28 15:37             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  5:09           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27 23:02       ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-27 23:13         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-27 23:29           ` Jeremy Allison
     [not found]           ` <CAPeXnHsTskZhwS6Ckp=xRzxbwax9FrMc5gRFmFmySY-Pq3KexA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]             ` <CAPeXnHtqc5fYUV89H2E4g-SQmFNmc=3bj1NiCRVAWg=WoP0R7g@mail.gmail.com>
2016-08-27 23:30               ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-27 23:49                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-28  0:02                   ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-28  0:16                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 16:57                       ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-27 23:35           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  4:47             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-28  5:17               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  5:38               ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-28  2:58         ` Steven Rostedt
2016-08-28  4:34           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  8:04             ` Greg KH
2016-08-28 15:58               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  3:18         ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  4:40           ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-28  6:25             ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-29 11:24       ` Maxime Ripard
2016-08-29 11:50         ` Greg KH
2016-08-30  9:57           ` Maxime Ripard
2016-08-30 15:33             ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-08-30 16:04               ` Guenter Roeck
2016-08-30 19:44                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-08-31  8:24                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2016-08-31  9:28                   ` Maxime Ripard
2016-08-30 16:55               ` Mark Brown
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-08-26  2:46 Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26  3:07 ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26  4:25   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26  4:48     ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26  5:24       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26  5:35         ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 15:28         ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-26 16:34           ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 16:48             ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-26 17:21               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 17:49                 ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 19:03                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 19:29                     ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-26 19:45                     ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 19:53                       ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 19:55                         ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 19:58                           ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 21:41                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-26 23:04                           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-26 23:34                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-27  0:03                               ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-27  4:00                           ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-26 19:59                       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 16:52             ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-26 19:36             ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-26 20:09               ` Jeremy Allison
2016-08-26 15:23 ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-26 16:37   ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 17:19     ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-27 15:43       ` Greg KH
2016-08-27 17:14         ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-27 18:47           ` Julia Lawall
2016-08-27 18:35 ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-27 22:50   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-28  7:47   ` Greg KH
2016-08-28  9:54     ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-29 17:42     ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-29 18:49       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 19:04         ` James Bottomley
2016-08-30 18:00           ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-30 18:25             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-30 19:31               ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-29 20:19         ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-29 21:31       ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-29 21:52         ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-29 21:59         ` Linus Torvalds
2016-08-29 23:05           ` Guenter Roeck
2016-08-30  4:32           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-24  5:30 Karen Sandler
2016-08-24 13:08 ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 14:25   ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-24 14:39     ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-24 15:21       ` Mark Brown
2016-08-24 16:54       ` Randy Dunlap
2016-08-24 17:39       ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 17:54         ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-08-24 18:30         ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-24 19:57           ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 20:19             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 21:13             ` Karen Sandler
2016-08-24 22:01               ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-24 17:38     ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 14:38   ` Daniel Vetter
2016-08-24 14:44     ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-24 15:29   ` David Woodhouse
2016-08-24 17:47     ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 18:24       ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 20:41         ` Greg KH
2016-08-24 21:09           ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-24 21:21             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 21:33               ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-24 21:42                 ` James Bottomley
2016-08-24 21:46                   ` Jiri Kosina
2016-08-25 16:27               ` Rik van Riel
2016-08-24 20:50       ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-24 21:54         ` Greg KH
2016-08-25  4:06           ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2016-08-25  6:37             ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-08-25  7:03               ` Josh Triplett
2016-08-25 20:03                 ` Dave Airlie
2016-08-25 20:20                   ` James Bottomley
2016-08-25 20:28                     ` Dave Airlie
2016-08-26  0:59             ` Greg KH
2016-08-26  2:30               ` Matthew Garrett
2016-08-26 16:34                 ` Luck, Tony
2016-08-26 11:49               ` James Bottomley
2016-08-28  7:48                 ` Wolfram Sang
2016-08-26 12:03             ` James Bottomley
2016-08-26 12:33               ` Christoph Hellwig

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