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From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>,
	Daniel Barkalow <barkalow@iabervon.org>,
	nigel@nigel.suspend2.net, Robert Hancock <hancockr@shaw.ca>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	pm list <linux-pm@lists.osdl.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Re: NAK new drivers without proper power management?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:37:10 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070211133710.GB1868@1wt.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070211131957.GA6039@srcf.ucam.org>

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 01:19:57PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 02:09:43PM +0100, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> 
> > Then change the PCI layer to do the basic PM only for known compatible
> > drivers, and modify only the known-compatible drivers to mark them
> > explicitly compatible. IMHO, it generally is a bad idea to require that
> > any driver explicitly states what it *does not* support. It's the reason
> > why users encounter problem on new features with old drivers. For instance,
> > do you know if the old ISA NE2000 driver breaks suspend ? I don't know,
> > but I would at least expect it not to support it by default. It's best
> > to announce what *is* supported and consider everything unimplemented
> > otherwise explicitly stated.
> 
> This ignores the reality of the situation, which is that many drivers 
> support suspend and resume despite the lack of any explicit 
> implementation. Changing things so they're flagged as broken when 
> they're not would be a regression.

Those which are identified as OK should be flagged OK. Only those for
which we have no idea should be flagged broken. It's better than leaving
them in the wild waiting for a victim. And given what Nigel would like,
they would all have to be reviewed to get .suspend/.resume entries
anyway. But at least, we would only have to change the known good instead
of all of them. And the remaining ones would not cause trouble to users.

Willy


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
Cc: Robert Hancock <hancockr@shaw.ca>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
	Daniel Barkalow <barkalow@iabervon.org>,
	pm list <linux-pm@lists.osdl.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Re: NAK new drivers without proper power management?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:37:10 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070211133710.GB1868@1wt.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070211131957.GA6039@srcf.ucam.org>

On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 01:19:57PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2007 at 02:09:43PM +0100, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> 
> > Then change the PCI layer to do the basic PM only for known compatible
> > drivers, and modify only the known-compatible drivers to mark them
> > explicitly compatible. IMHO, it generally is a bad idea to require that
> > any driver explicitly states what it *does not* support. It's the reason
> > why users encounter problem on new features with old drivers. For instance,
> > do you know if the old ISA NE2000 driver breaks suspend ? I don't know,
> > but I would at least expect it not to support it by default. It's best
> > to announce what *is* supported and consider everything unimplemented
> > otherwise explicitly stated.
> 
> This ignores the reality of the situation, which is that many drivers 
> support suspend and resume despite the lack of any explicit 
> implementation. Changing things so they're flagged as broken when 
> they're not would be a regression.

Those which are identified as OK should be flagged OK. Only those for
which we have no idea should be flagged broken. It's better than leaving
them in the wild waiting for a victim. And given what Nigel would like,
they would all have to be reviewed to get .suspend/.resume entries
anyway. But at least, we would only have to change the known good instead
of all of them. And the remaining ones would not cause trouble to users.

Willy

  reply	other threads:[~2007-02-11 13:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <fa.xSKPgY66Q+DPCZ1pszFFfdrJ0To@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.FzHdYYYH5Ru57c8/yRxLylpH0Kk@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]   ` <fa.DuG12yQo+RR4jIjJTnoOwtKM0Ao@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]     ` <fa.Jy0FJQtASvVEpsy8Q96uoHtyEVA@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-10  1:50       ` NAK new drivers without proper power management? Robert Hancock
2007-02-10  1:59         ` Lee Revell
2007-02-10  2:09           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  2:22             ` Lee Revell
2007-02-10  3:21               ` Kevin Fox
2007-02-10 20:40               ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-10  4:35           ` Joseph Fannin
2007-02-13 21:08             ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-10 12:47           ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-10  2:05         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  3:27           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2007-02-10  4:18             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  3:02         ` [PATCH] " Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  9:34           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10  9:34             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 10:02             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 10:30               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 10:30                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 17:52                 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-10 17:52                   ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-10 19:50                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 19:50                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11  6:54                     ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11  6:54                       ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 12:13                       ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-11 13:09                         ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:09                           ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:19                           ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-11 13:37                             ` Willy Tarreau [this message]
2007-02-11 13:37                               ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:50                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 13:50                                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 13:57                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:57                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 14:36                                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 14:36                                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 15:19                                     ` Pekka Enberg
2007-02-11 15:19                                       ` Pekka Enberg
2007-02-11 18:31                                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 18:31                                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 17:27                                     ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-11 18:53                                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 18:53                                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:06                                         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:06                                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:10                                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:10                                             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 21:04                                     ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-11 21:04                                       ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-11 21:10                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 17:36                         ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 22:49                         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 19:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 19:37                     ` Pavel Machek
     [not found]   ` <fa.DhkemAgVI60diqZy0t9GzpwyLmk@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]     ` <fa.E/NjHlgg0HqDg5CgZjnCHFi2AMM@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]       ` <fa.kop49l/7yexJoUGrzk6vVeIP934@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-10 23:20         ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11  0:44           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 17:01             ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 22:40             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:29               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:40                 ` Nigel Cunningham
     [not found]         ` <fa.EgQN5JpU6xrZSLyOY0kWjJ26hUM@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-11 18:31           ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 21:52             ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 22:26               ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:46                 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 23:18                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:38                     ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 23:45                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12  0:26                       ` Alan
2007-02-12  5:19                         ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-12 20:20                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 22:36                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:23                   ` Alan
2007-02-11 23:38                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:41                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:47                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:50                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:55                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12  0:09                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12  0:15                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 12:19               ` Pavel Machek
     [not found]         ` <fa.O1YH4k5KtBGCNs5i2yB17bPvPGw@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]           ` <fa.RfzClbTP/7B79AoEbQLNj3ABfIk@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]             ` <fa.AaJ/ugmiUmPO8uC+y1rS9JLuuMc@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-12  0:59               ` Robert Hancock

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