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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: joeyli <jlee@suse.com>
Cc: "Lee, Chun-Yi" <joeyli.kernel@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org,
	keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>, Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.com>,
	Ryan Chen <yu.chen.surf@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Giovanni Gherdovich <ggherdovich@suse.cz>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:07:03 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190107180703.GE933@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190107173743.GC4210@linux-l9pv.suse>

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Hi!

> Thanks for your review!
> 
> > > The hibernate function can be used to snapshot memory pages to an image,
> > > then kernel restores the image to memory space in a appropriate time.
> > > There have secrets in snapshot image and cracker may modifies it for
> > > hacking system. Encryption and authentication of snapshot image can protect
> > > the system.
> > > 
> > > Hibernate function requests the master key through key retention service.
> > > The snapshot master key can be a trusted key or a user defined key. The
> > > name of snapshot master key is fixed to "swsusp-kmk". User should loads
> > > swsusp-kmk to kernel by keyctl tool before the hibernation resume.
> > > e.g. The swsusp-kmk must be loaded before systemd-hibernate-resume
> > 
> > But if userspace has a key, encryption is useless against root.
> >
> 
> Yes, but this concern is not only for hibernation encryption. This patch
> set does not provide solution against this concern.

So, can we postpone these patches until we have a solution secure
against root users?

> My security goals:
> 
> - Encrypt and authicate hibernate snapshot image in kernel space. Userspace
>   can only touch an encrypted and signed snapshot image.
> 
> - The code of encryption are in kernel. They will be signed and verify with
>   kernel binary when secure boot enabled. It's better than using
>   unauthenticated userspace code at runtime.

These are not goals. I'd like to understand why you want to put it into
kernel in the first place.
									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: joeyli <jlee@suse.com>
Cc: "Lee, Chun-Yi" <joeyli.kernel@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org,
	keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>, Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.com>,
	Ryan Chen <yu.chen.surf@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Giovanni Gherdovich <ggherdovich@suse.cz>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 19:07:03 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190107180703.GE933@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190107173743.GC4210@linux-l9pv.suse>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1697 bytes --]

Hi!

> Thanks for your review!
> 
> > > The hibernate function can be used to snapshot memory pages to an image,
> > > then kernel restores the image to memory space in a appropriate time.
> > > There have secrets in snapshot image and cracker may modifies it for
> > > hacking system. Encryption and authentication of snapshot image can protect
> > > the system.
> > > 
> > > Hibernate function requests the master key through key retention service.
> > > The snapshot master key can be a trusted key or a user defined key. The
> > > name of snapshot master key is fixed to "swsusp-kmk". User should loads
> > > swsusp-kmk to kernel by keyctl tool before the hibernation resume.
> > > e.g. The swsusp-kmk must be loaded before systemd-hibernate-resume
> > 
> > But if userspace has a key, encryption is useless against root.
> >
> 
> Yes, but this concern is not only for hibernation encryption. This patch
> set does not provide solution against this concern.

So, can we postpone these patches until we have a solution secure
against root users?

> My security goals:
> 
> - Encrypt and authicate hibernate snapshot image in kernel space. Userspace
>   can only touch an encrypted and signed snapshot image.
> 
> - The code of encryption are in kernel. They will be signed and verify with
>   kernel binary when secure boot enabled. It's better than using
>   unauthenticated userspace code at runtime.

These are not goals. I'd like to understand why you want to put it into
kernel in the first place.
									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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  reply	other threads:[~2019-01-07 18:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 181+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-03 14:32 [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:01   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:01     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:25     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:25       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 15:33     ` joeyli
2019-01-07 15:33       ` joeyli
2019-01-07 15:52       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 15:52         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08  5:03         ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-08  5:03           ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-08  7:09           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08  7:09             ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08 23:54             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 23:54               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  0:44               ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  0:44                 ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  0:44                 ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  1:43                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  1:43                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  6:49                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:49                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 18:11                     ` joeyli
2019-01-09 18:11                       ` joeyli
2019-01-11 15:53                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 15:53                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-09 18:34                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 18:34                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 19:46                       ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 19:46                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 20:12                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 20:12                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 21:43                           ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 21:43                             ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 22:19                             ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-09 22:19                               ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-11 16:04                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 16:04                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 14:02                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 14:02                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 15:28                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-11 15:28                       ` James Bottomley
2019-01-18 14:33                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-18 14:33                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-18 20:59                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-18 20:59                           ` James Bottomley
2019-01-20 16:02                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-20 16:02                             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-09  6:45                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:45                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:58                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:58                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  7:05                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  7:05                       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  8:21                       ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09  8:21                         ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 10:17                         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 10:17                           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 17:34                           ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 17:34                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 18:18                             ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 18:18                               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 19:08                         ` [PATCH 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:08                           ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:09                           ` [PATCH 1/6] crypto: add template handling for RNGs Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:09                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 2/6] crypto: kdf - SP800-108 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:27                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:27                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:31                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:31                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 3/6] crypto: kdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:26                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:26                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:26                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:26                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 4/6] crypto: hkdf - RFC5869 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:12                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:12                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  9:55                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-12  9:55                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-13  7:56                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-13  7:56                                   ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-13 16:52                                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-13 16:52                                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-14  9:30                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:30                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14 17:53                                 ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 17:53                                   ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 18:44                                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-14 18:44                                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 5/6] crypto: hkdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:19                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:19                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:25                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:25                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14 17:44                                 ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 17:44                                   ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-11 19:11                           ` [PATCH 6/6] crypto: tcrypt - add KDF test invocation Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:11                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:06                           ` [PATCH v2 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:06                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:07                             ` [PATCH v2 1/6] crypto: add template handling for RNGs Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:07                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 2/6] crypto: kdf - SP800-108 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 3/6] crypto: kdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 4/6] crypto: hkdf - HMAC-based Extract-and-Expand KDF Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                             ` [PATCH v2 5/6] crypto: hkdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                             ` [PATCH v2 6/6] crypto: tcrypt - add KDF test invocation Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-28 10:07                             ` [PATCH v2 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Mueller
2019-01-28 10:07                               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-30 10:08                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-30 10:08                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-30 14:39                                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-30 14:39                                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  7:45                                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  7:45                                     ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:00                                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:00                                       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:05                                       ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:05                                         ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:17                                         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:17                                           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-19  5:44                                           ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-19  5:44                                             ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-09 15:34                       ` [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler James Bottomley
2019-01-09 15:34                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:27               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:27                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 2/5] PM / hibernate: Generate and verify signature for snapshot image Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:09   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:09     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 18:58   ` Dan Carpenter
2019-01-07 18:58     ` Dan Carpenter
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 3/5] PM / hibernate: Encrypt " Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:23   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:23     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 4/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Erase the snapshot master key in snapshot pages Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 5/5 v2] PM / hibernate: An option to request that snapshot image must be authenticated Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06 18:10 ` [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image Pavel Machek
2019-01-06 18:10   ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-07 17:37   ` joeyli
2019-01-07 17:37     ` joeyli
2019-01-07 18:07     ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2019-01-07 18:07       ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-08 21:41     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 21:41       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 23:42       ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-08 23:42         ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-09 16:39       ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:39         ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:47         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 16:47           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 14:29           ` joeyli
2019-01-11 14:29             ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:51         ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:51           ` joeyli
2019-01-09 18:47         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 18:47           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-10 15:12           ` joeyli
2019-01-10 15:12             ` joeyli
2019-01-11  1:09             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11  1:09               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11 14:59               ` joeyli
2019-01-11 14:59                 ` joeyli

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