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From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
	Stephan Mueller <smueller@chronox.de>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"Lee, Chun-Yi" <joeyli.kernel@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>, Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.com>,
	Ryan Chen <yu.chen.surf@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Giovanni Gherdovich <ggherdovich@suse.cz>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:04:13 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190111160413.GB12093@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrWoSAf4hHCXvqVZhQ5YAMBaZzaBCfnb6sC8JPrSs6FRog@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 10:34:42AM -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> I suppose I should go read the 2.0 spec. I’ve read the 1.2 spec, but I
> always assumed that 2.0 was essentially a superset of 1.2
> functionality.

They are essentially different protocols. No real compatibility.


> Can the kernel filter TPM 2.0 operations?  If so, then a signature
> that the kernel would have prevented user code from generating is de
> facto an attestation that the kernel generated it (or that the kernel
> was compromised, which is sort of equivalent).

You shoud look into TPM resource manager that I implemented with great
work from James on session swapping and see how far it scales what you
have in mind. It is currently exposed only to the user space but could
be easily made an in-kernel API.

Side-topic: right now the TPM driver can be compiled as a module when
its APIs are not used by the kernel (namely IMA and trusted keys) with
some Kconfig magic. Since it looks like that there will be even more
customers, I think it would make sense to make the TPM driver core as
part of the core kernel (device drivers for different types of chips
could still be modules). I've proposed this before maybe two times, but
it has always been rejected.

/Jarkko

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
	Stephan Mueller <smueller@chronox.de>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"Lee, Chun-Yi" <joeyli.kernel@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>, Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.com>,
	Ryan Chen <yu.chen.surf@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Giovanni Gherdovich <ggherdovich@suse.cz>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 18:04:13 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190111160413.GB12093@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrWoSAf4hHCXvqVZhQ5YAMBaZzaBCfnb6sC8JPrSs6FRog@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 10:34:42AM -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> I suppose I should go read the 2.0 spec. I’ve read the 1.2 spec, but I
> always assumed that 2.0 was essentially a superset of 1.2
> functionality.

They are essentially different protocols. No real compatibility.


> Can the kernel filter TPM 2.0 operations?  If so, then a signature
> that the kernel would have prevented user code from generating is de
> facto an attestation that the kernel generated it (or that the kernel
> was compromised, which is sort of equivalent).

You shoud look into TPM resource manager that I implemented with great
work from James on session swapping and see how far it scales what you
have in mind. It is currently exposed only to the user space but could
be easily made an in-kernel API.

Side-topic: right now the TPM driver can be compiled as a module when
its APIs are not used by the kernel (namely IMA and trusted keys) with
some Kconfig magic. Since it looks like that there will be even more
customers, I think it would make sense to make the TPM driver core as
part of the core kernel (device drivers for different types of chips
could still be modules). I've proposed this before maybe two times, but
it has always been rejected.

/Jarkko

  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-01-11 16:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 181+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-03 14:32 [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:01   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:01     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:25     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:25       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 15:33     ` joeyli
2019-01-07 15:33       ` joeyli
2019-01-07 15:52       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 15:52         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08  5:03         ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-08  5:03           ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-08  7:09           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08  7:09             ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08 23:54             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 23:54               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  0:44               ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  0:44                 ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  0:44                 ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  1:43                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  1:43                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  6:49                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:49                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 18:11                     ` joeyli
2019-01-09 18:11                       ` joeyli
2019-01-11 15:53                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 15:53                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-09 18:34                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 18:34                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 19:46                       ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 19:46                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 20:12                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 20:12                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 21:43                           ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 21:43                             ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 22:19                             ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-09 22:19                               ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-11 16:04                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen [this message]
2019-01-11 16:04                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 14:02                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 14:02                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 15:28                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-11 15:28                       ` James Bottomley
2019-01-18 14:33                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-18 14:33                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-18 20:59                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-18 20:59                           ` James Bottomley
2019-01-20 16:02                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-20 16:02                             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-09  6:45                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:45                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:58                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:58                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  7:05                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  7:05                       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  8:21                       ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09  8:21                         ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 10:17                         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 10:17                           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 17:34                           ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 17:34                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 18:18                             ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 18:18                               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 19:08                         ` [PATCH 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:08                           ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:09                           ` [PATCH 1/6] crypto: add template handling for RNGs Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:09                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 2/6] crypto: kdf - SP800-108 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:27                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:27                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:31                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:31                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 3/6] crypto: kdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:26                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:26                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:26                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:26                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 4/6] crypto: hkdf - RFC5869 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:12                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:12                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  9:55                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-12  9:55                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-13  7:56                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-13  7:56                                   ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-13 16:52                                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-13 16:52                                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-14  9:30                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:30                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14 17:53                                 ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 17:53                                   ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 18:44                                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-14 18:44                                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 5/6] crypto: hkdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:19                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:19                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:25                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:25                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14 17:44                                 ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 17:44                                   ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-11 19:11                           ` [PATCH 6/6] crypto: tcrypt - add KDF test invocation Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:11                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:06                           ` [PATCH v2 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:06                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:07                             ` [PATCH v2 1/6] crypto: add template handling for RNGs Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:07                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 2/6] crypto: kdf - SP800-108 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 3/6] crypto: kdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 4/6] crypto: hkdf - HMAC-based Extract-and-Expand KDF Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                             ` [PATCH v2 5/6] crypto: hkdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                             ` [PATCH v2 6/6] crypto: tcrypt - add KDF test invocation Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-28 10:07                             ` [PATCH v2 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Mueller
2019-01-28 10:07                               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-30 10:08                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-30 10:08                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-30 14:39                                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-30 14:39                                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  7:45                                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  7:45                                     ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:00                                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:00                                       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:05                                       ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:05                                         ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:17                                         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:17                                           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-19  5:44                                           ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-19  5:44                                             ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-09 15:34                       ` [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler James Bottomley
2019-01-09 15:34                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:27               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:27                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 2/5] PM / hibernate: Generate and verify signature for snapshot image Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:09   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:09     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 18:58   ` Dan Carpenter
2019-01-07 18:58     ` Dan Carpenter
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 3/5] PM / hibernate: Encrypt " Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:23   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:23     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 4/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Erase the snapshot master key in snapshot pages Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 5/5 v2] PM / hibernate: An option to request that snapshot image must be authenticated Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06 18:10 ` [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image Pavel Machek
2019-01-06 18:10   ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-07 17:37   ` joeyli
2019-01-07 17:37     ` joeyli
2019-01-07 18:07     ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-07 18:07       ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-08 21:41     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 21:41       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 23:42       ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-08 23:42         ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-09 16:39       ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:39         ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:47         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 16:47           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 14:29           ` joeyli
2019-01-11 14:29             ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:51         ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:51           ` joeyli
2019-01-09 18:47         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 18:47           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-10 15:12           ` joeyli
2019-01-10 15:12             ` joeyli
2019-01-11  1:09             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11  1:09               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11 14:59               ` joeyli
2019-01-11 14:59                 ` joeyli

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