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From: Stephan Mueller <smueller@chronox.de>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"Lee, Chun-Yi" <joeyli.kernel@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org,
	keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>, Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.com>,
	Ryan Chen <yu.chen.surf@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Giovanni Gherdovich <ggherdovich@suse.cz>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:27:28 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3239276.QO2kezntxR@tauon.chronox.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <D70458DE-712B-4767-8143-7DC9107689C3@amacapital.net>

Am Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2019, 00:54:22 CET schrieb Andy Lutomirski:

Hi Andy,
> 
> I think that, if the crypto API is going to grow a KDF facility, it should
> be done right. Have a key type or flag or whatever that says “this key may
> *only* be used to derive keys using such-and-such algorithm”, and have a
> helper to derive a key.  That helper should take some useful parameters and
> mix them in:
> 
> - What type of key is being derived?  ECDSA signing key?  HMAC key?  AES
> key?
> 
> - Can user code access the derived key?
> 
> - What is the key’s purpose?  “Encrypt and authenticate a hibernation image”
> would be a purpose.
> 
> - Number of bytes.
> 
> All of these parameters should be mixed in to the key derivation.
> 
> Also, an AE key, even for AES+HMAC, should be just one derived key.  If you
> need 512 bits, ask for a 512-bit key, not two 256-bit keys.

I concur with your requirements. However, is the kernel crypto API the right 
place to enforce such policies? To me, the kernel crypto API is a tinker-toy 
set of ciphers.

The real policy enforcer would or should be the keyring facility. Thus, may I 
propose to:

- implement the cryptographic primitive of the KDF in the kernel crypto API

- implement the policy system how to use the KDF in the keyring facility

Ciao
Stephan

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Stephan Mueller <smueller@chronox.de>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"Lee, Chun-Yi" <joeyli.kernel@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org,
	keyrings@vger.kernel.org,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael.j.wysocki@intel.com>,
	Chen Yu <yu.c.chen@intel.com>, Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.com>,
	Ryan Chen <yu.chen.surf@gmail.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Giovanni Gherdovich <ggherdovich@suse.cz>,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:27:28 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3239276.QO2kezntxR@tauon.chronox.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <D70458DE-712B-4767-8143-7DC9107689C3@amacapital.net>

Am Mittwoch, 9. Januar 2019, 00:54:22 CET schrieb Andy Lutomirski:

Hi Andy,
> 
> I think that, if the crypto API is going to grow a KDF facility, it should
> be done right. Have a key type or flag or whatever that says “this key may
> *only* be used to derive keys using such-and-such algorithm”, and have a
> helper to derive a key.  That helper should take some useful parameters and
> mix them in:
> 
> - What type of key is being derived?  ECDSA signing key?  HMAC key?  AES
> key?
> 
> - Can user code access the derived key?
> 
> - What is the key’s purpose?  “Encrypt and authenticate a hibernation image”
> would be a purpose.
> 
> - Number of bytes.
> 
> All of these parameters should be mixed in to the key derivation.
> 
> Also, an AE key, even for AES+HMAC, should be just one derived key.  If you
> need 512 bits, ask for a 512-bit key, not two 256-bit keys.

I concur with your requirements. However, is the kernel crypto API the right 
place to enforce such policies? To me, the kernel crypto API is a tinker-toy 
set of ciphers.

The real policy enforcer would or should be the keyring facility. Thus, may I 
propose to:

- implement the cryptographic primitive of the KDF in the kernel crypto API

- implement the policy system how to use the KDF in the keyring facility

Ciao
Stephan



  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-01-09  6:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 181+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-03 14:32 [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:01   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:01     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:25     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:25       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 15:33     ` joeyli
2019-01-07 15:33       ` joeyli
2019-01-07 15:52       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 15:52         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08  5:03         ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-08  5:03           ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-08  7:09           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08  7:09             ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-08 23:54             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 23:54               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  0:44               ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  0:44                 ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  0:44                 ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  1:43                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  1:43                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09  6:49                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:49                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 18:11                     ` joeyli
2019-01-09 18:11                       ` joeyli
2019-01-11 15:53                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 15:53                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-09 18:34                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 18:34                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 19:46                       ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 19:46                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 20:12                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 20:12                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 21:43                           ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 21:43                             ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09 22:19                             ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-09 22:19                               ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-11 16:04                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 16:04                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 14:02                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 14:02                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-11 15:28                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-11 15:28                       ` James Bottomley
2019-01-18 14:33                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-18 14:33                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-18 20:59                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-18 20:59                           ` James Bottomley
2019-01-20 16:02                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-20 16:02                             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2019-01-09  6:45                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:45                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  6:58                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:58                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  7:05                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  7:05                       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09  8:21                       ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09  8:21                         ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 10:17                         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 10:17                           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 17:34                           ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 17:34                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-09 18:18                             ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 18:18                               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 19:08                         ` [PATCH 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:08                           ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:09                           ` [PATCH 1/6] crypto: add template handling for RNGs Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:09                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 2/6] crypto: kdf - SP800-108 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:27                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:27                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:31                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:31                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 3/6] crypto: kdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:26                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:26                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:26                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:26                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 4/6] crypto: hkdf - RFC5869 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:12                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:12                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  9:55                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-12  9:55                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-13  7:56                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-13  7:56                                   ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-13 16:52                                   ` James Bottomley
2019-01-13 16:52                                     ` James Bottomley
2019-01-14  9:30                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:30                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14 17:53                                 ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 17:53                                   ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 18:44                                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-14 18:44                                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 19:10                           ` [PATCH 5/6] crypto: hkdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:10                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-12  5:19                             ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-12  5:19                               ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14  9:25                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14  9:25                                 ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-14 17:44                                 ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-14 17:44                                   ` Eric Biggers
2019-01-11 19:11                           ` [PATCH 6/6] crypto: tcrypt - add KDF test invocation Stephan Müller
2019-01-11 19:11                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:06                           ` [PATCH v2 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:06                             ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:07                             ` [PATCH v2 1/6] crypto: add template handling for RNGs Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:07                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 2/6] crypto: kdf - SP800-108 Key Derivation Function Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 3/6] crypto: kdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                             ` [PATCH v2 4/6] crypto: hkdf - HMAC-based Extract-and-Expand KDF Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:08                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                             ` [PATCH v2 5/6] crypto: hkdf - add known answer tests Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                             ` [PATCH v2 6/6] crypto: tcrypt - add KDF test invocation Stephan Müller
2019-01-16 11:09                               ` Stephan Müller
2019-01-28 10:07                             ` [PATCH v2 0/6] General Key Derivation Function Support Stephan Mueller
2019-01-28 10:07                               ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-30 10:08                               ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-30 10:08                                 ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-30 14:39                                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-30 14:39                                   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  7:45                                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  7:45                                     ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:00                                     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:00                                       ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:05                                       ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:05                                         ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-08  8:17                                         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-08  8:17                                           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-02-19  5:44                                           ` Herbert Xu
2019-02-19  5:44                                             ` Herbert Xu
2019-01-09 15:34                       ` [PATCH 1/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Create snapshot keys handler James Bottomley
2019-01-09 15:34                         ` James Bottomley
2019-01-09  6:27               ` Stephan Mueller [this message]
2019-01-09  6:27                 ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 2/5] PM / hibernate: Generate and verify signature for snapshot image Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:09   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:09     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-07 18:58   ` Dan Carpenter
2019-01-07 18:58     ` Dan Carpenter
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 3/5] PM / hibernate: Encrypt " Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06  8:23   ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-06  8:23     ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 4/5 v2] PM / hibernate: Erase the snapshot master key in snapshot pages Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32 ` [PATCH 5/5 v2] PM / hibernate: An option to request that snapshot image must be authenticated Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-03 14:32   ` Lee, Chun-Yi
2019-01-06 18:10 ` [PATCH 0/5 v2][RFC] Encryption and authentication for hibernate snapshot image Pavel Machek
2019-01-06 18:10   ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-07 17:37   ` joeyli
2019-01-07 17:37     ` joeyli
2019-01-07 18:07     ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-07 18:07       ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-08 21:41     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 21:41       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-08 23:42       ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-08 23:42         ` Pavel Machek
2019-01-09 16:39       ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:39         ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:47         ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-09 16:47           ` Stephan Mueller
2019-01-11 14:29           ` joeyli
2019-01-11 14:29             ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:51         ` joeyli
2019-01-09 16:51           ` joeyli
2019-01-09 18:47         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-09 18:47           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-10 15:12           ` joeyli
2019-01-10 15:12             ` joeyli
2019-01-11  1:09             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11  1:09               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-01-11 14:59               ` joeyli
2019-01-11 14:59                 ` joeyli

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