From: Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org> To: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net> Cc: jeyu@kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, arnd@arndb.de, rostedt@goodmis.org, mingo@redhat.com, aquini@redhat.com, cai@lca.pw, dyoung@redhat.com, bhe@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, tglx@linutronix.de, gpiccoli@canonical.com, pmladek@suse.com, tiwai@suse.de, schlad@suse.de, andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com, keescook@chromium.org, daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch, will@kernel.org, mchehab+samsung@kernel.org, kvalo@codeaurora.org, davem@davemloft.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, ath10k@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: use new module_firmware_crashed() Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 16:51:54 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20200518165154.GH11244@42.do-not-panic.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <2b74a35c726e451b2fab2b5d0d301e80d1f4cdc7.camel@sipsolutions.net> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 03:24:01PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote: > On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 21:28 +0000, Luis Chamberlain wrote:> module_firmware_crashed > > You didn't CC me or the wireless list on the rest of the patches, so I'm > replying to a random one, but ... > > What is the point here? > > This should in no way affect the integrity of the system/kernel, for > most devices anyway. Keyword you used here is "most device". And in the worst case, *who* knows what other odd things may happen afterwards. > So what if ath10k's firmware crashes? If there's a driver bug it will > not handle it right (and probably crash, WARN_ON, or something else), > but if the driver is working right then that will not affect the kernel > at all. Sometimes the device can go into a state which requires driver removal and addition to get things back up. > So maybe I can understand that maybe you want an easy way to discover - > per device - that the firmware crashed, but that still doesn't warrant a > complete kernel taint. That is one reason, another is that a taint helps support cases *fast* easily detect if the issue was a firmware crash, instead of scraping logs for driver specific ways to say the firmware has crashed. > Instead of the kernel taint, IMHO you should provide an annotation in > sysfs (or somewhere else) for the *struct device* that had its firmware > crash. It would seem the way some folks are thinking about getting more details would be through devlink. > Or maybe, if it's too complex to walk the entire hierarchy > checking for that, have a uevent, or add the ability for the kernel to > print out elsewhere in debugfs the list of devices that crashed at some > point... All of that is fine, but a kernel taint? debugfs is optional, a taint is simple, and device agnostic. From a support perspective it is very easy to see if a possible issue may be device firmware specific. Luis
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org> To: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net> Cc: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, aquini@redhat.com, peterz@infradead.org, daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch, mchehab+samsung@kernel.org, will@kernel.org, bhe@redhat.com, ath10k@lists.infradead.org, tiwai@suse.de, mingo@redhat.com, dyoung@redhat.com, pmladek@suse.com, keescook@chromium.org, arnd@arndb.de, gpiccoli@canonical.com, rostedt@goodmis.org, cai@lca.pw, tglx@linutronix.de, andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com, kvalo@codeaurora.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, schlad@suse.de, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, jeyu@kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, davem@davemloft.net Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: use new module_firmware_crashed() Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 16:51:54 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20200518165154.GH11244@42.do-not-panic.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <2b74a35c726e451b2fab2b5d0d301e80d1f4cdc7.camel@sipsolutions.net> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 03:24:01PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote: > On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 21:28 +0000, Luis Chamberlain wrote:> module_firmware_crashed > > You didn't CC me or the wireless list on the rest of the patches, so I'm > replying to a random one, but ... > > What is the point here? > > This should in no way affect the integrity of the system/kernel, for > most devices anyway. Keyword you used here is "most device". And in the worst case, *who* knows what other odd things may happen afterwards. > So what if ath10k's firmware crashes? If there's a driver bug it will > not handle it right (and probably crash, WARN_ON, or something else), > but if the driver is working right then that will not affect the kernel > at all. Sometimes the device can go into a state which requires driver removal and addition to get things back up. > So maybe I can understand that maybe you want an easy way to discover - > per device - that the firmware crashed, but that still doesn't warrant a > complete kernel taint. That is one reason, another is that a taint helps support cases *fast* easily detect if the issue was a firmware crash, instead of scraping logs for driver specific ways to say the firmware has crashed. > Instead of the kernel taint, IMHO you should provide an annotation in > sysfs (or somewhere else) for the *struct device* that had its firmware > crash. It would seem the way some folks are thinking about getting more details would be through devlink. > Or maybe, if it's too complex to walk the entire hierarchy > checking for that, have a uevent, or add the ability for the kernel to > print out elsewhere in debugfs the list of devices that crashed at some > point... All of that is fine, but a kernel taint? debugfs is optional, a taint is simple, and device agnostic. From a support perspective it is very easy to see if a possible issue may be device firmware specific. Luis _______________________________________________ ath10k mailing list ath10k@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ath10k
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-05-18 16:52 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 128+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2020-05-15 21:28 [PATCH v2 00/15] net: taint when the device driver firmware crashes Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] taint: add module firmware crash taint support Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:03 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-19 16:42 ` Jessica Yu 2020-05-22 5:17 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] ethernet/839: use new module_firmware_crashed() Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:04 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] bnx2x: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:05 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] bnxt: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:06 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-16 5:14 ` Vasundhara Volam 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] bna: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:07 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] liquidio: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:07 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] cxgb4: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:09 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] ehea: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:09 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] qed: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:10 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] soc: qcom: ipa: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:10 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-19 22:34 ` Alex Elder 2020-05-22 5:28 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 20:52 ` Alex Elder 2020-05-22 21:53 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] wimax/i2400m: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:11 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-15 21:28 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:11 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-16 4:11 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-16 13:24 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-16 13:24 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-16 13:50 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-16 13:50 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 16:56 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 16:56 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-19 1:23 ` Brian Norris 2020-05-19 1:23 ` Brian Norris 2020-05-19 14:02 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-19 14:02 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-20 0:47 ` Brian Norris 2020-05-20 0:47 ` Brian Norris 2020-05-20 5:37 ` Emmanuel Grumbach 2020-05-20 5:37 ` Emmanuel Grumbach 2020-05-20 8:32 ` Andy Shevchenko 2020-05-20 8:32 ` Andy Shevchenko 2020-05-21 19:01 ` Brian Norris 2020-05-21 19:01 ` Brian Norris 2020-05-22 5:12 ` Emmanuel Grumbach 2020-05-22 5:12 ` Emmanuel Grumbach 2020-05-22 5:23 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 5:23 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 16:51 ` Luis Chamberlain [this message] 2020-05-18 16:51 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 16:58 ` Ben Greear 2020-05-18 16:58 ` Ben Greear 2020-05-18 17:09 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 17:09 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 17:15 ` Ben Greear 2020-05-18 17:15 ` Ben Greear 2020-05-18 17:18 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 17:18 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 18:06 ` Steve deRosier 2020-05-18 18:06 ` Steve deRosier 2020-05-18 19:09 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 19:09 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 19:25 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 19:25 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 19:59 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 19:59 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 20:07 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 20:07 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 21:18 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 21:18 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 20:28 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 20:28 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 20:29 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 20:29 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 20:35 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 20:35 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 20:41 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 20:41 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-18 20:46 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 20:46 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 21:22 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 21:22 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-18 22:16 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-18 22:16 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-19 1:05 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-19 1:05 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-19 21:15 ` [RFC 1/2] devlink: add simple fw crash helpers Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-19 21:15 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-22 5:20 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 5:20 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 17:17 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-22 17:17 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-22 20:46 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-22 20:46 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-22 21:51 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 21:51 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 23:23 ` Steve deRosier 2020-05-22 23:23 ` Steve deRosier 2020-05-22 23:44 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 23:44 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-25 9:07 ` Andy Shevchenko 2020-05-25 9:07 ` Andy Shevchenko 2020-05-25 17:08 ` Ben Greear 2020-05-25 17:08 ` Ben Greear 2020-05-25 20:57 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-25 20:57 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-07-30 13:56 ` Johannes Berg 2020-07-30 13:56 ` Johannes Berg 2020-05-22 21:49 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-22 21:49 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-19 21:15 ` [RFC 2/2] i2400m: use devlink health reporter Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-19 21:15 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] ath6kl: use new module_firmware_crashed() Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-15 21:28 ` Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:12 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-16 4:12 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] brcm80211: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:13 ` Rafael Aquini 2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] mwl8k: " Luis Chamberlain 2020-05-16 4:13 ` Rafael Aquini
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