From: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> To: Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com> Cc: Lu Baolu <baolu.lu@linux.intel.com>, Chaitanya Kulkarni <chaitanyak@nvidia.com>, Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>, Daniel Jordan <daniel.m.jordan@oracle.com>, David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>, Eric Auger <eric.auger@redhat.com>, iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>, Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@linaro.org>, Joao Martins <joao.m.martins@oracle.com>, Kevin Tian <kevin.tian@intel.com>, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Matthew Rosato <mjrosato@linux.ibm.com>, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, Nicolin Chen <nicolinc@nvidia.com>, Niklas Schnelle <schnelle@linux.ibm.com>, Shameerali Kolothum Thodi <shameerali.kolothum.thodi@huawei.com>, Yi Liu <yi.l.liu@intel.com>, Keqian Zhu <zhukeqian1@huawei.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 11/12] iommufd: vfio container FD ioctl compatibility Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:11:59 -0300 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20220324231159.GA11336@nvidia.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20220324160403.42131028.alex.williamson@redhat.com> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 04:04:03PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:33:42 -0300 > Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 04:51:25PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote: > > > > > My overall question here would be whether we can actually achieve a > > > compatibility interface that has sufficient feature transparency that we > > > can dump vfio code in favor of this interface, or will there be enough > > > niche use cases that we need to keep type1 and vfio containers around > > > through a deprecation process? > > > > Other than SPAPR, I think we can. > > Does this mean #ifdef CONFIG_PPC in vfio core to retain infrastructure > for POWER support? Certainly initialy - I have no ability to do better than that. I'm hoping someone from IBM will be willing to work on this in the long run and we can do better. > > I don't think this is compatibility. No kernel today triggers qemu to > > use this feature as no kernel supports live migration. No existing > > qemu will trigger this feature with new kernels that support live > > migration v2. Therefore we can adjust qemu's dirty tracking at the > > same time we enable migration v2 in qemu. > > I guess I was assuming that enabling v2 migration in QEMU was dependent > on the existing type1 dirty tracking because it's the only means we > have to tell QEMU that all memory is perpetually dirty when we have a > DMA device. Is that not correct? I haven't looked closely at this part in qemu, but IMHO, if qemu sees that it has VFIO migration support but does not have any DMA dirty tracking capability it should not do precopy flows. If there is a bug here we should certainly fix it before progressing the v2 patches. I'll ask Yishai & Co to take a look. > > Intel no-snoop is simple enough, just needs some Intel cleanup parts. Patches for this exist now > > mdev will come along with the final VFIO integration, all the really > > hard parts are done already. The VFIO integration is a medium sized > > task overall. > > > > So, I'm not ready to give up yet :) > > Ok, that's a more promising outlook than I was inferring from the long > list of missing features. Yeah, it is just long, but they are not scary things, just priorites and patch planning. > > I think we can get there pretty quickly, or at least I haven't got > > anything that is scaring me alot (beyond SPAPR of course) > > > > For the dpdk/etcs of the world I think we are already there. > > That's essentially what I'm trying to reconcile, we're racing both > to round out the compatibility interface to fully support QEMU, while > also updating QEMU to use iommufd directly so it won't need that full > support. It's a confusing message. Thanks, The long term purpose of compatibility is to provide a config option to allow type 1 to be turned off and continue to support old user space (eg in containers) that is running old qemu/dpdk/spdk/etc. This shows that we have a plan/path to allow a distro to support only one iommu interface in their kernel should they choose without having to sacrifice uABI compatibility. As for racing, my intention is to leave the compat interface alone for awhile - the more urgent things in on my personal list are the RFC for dirty tracking, mlx5 support for dirty tracking, and VFIO preparation for iommufd support. Eric and Yi are focusing on userspace page tables and qemu updates. Joao is working on implementing iommu driver dirty tracking Lu and Jacob are working on getting PASID support infrastructure together. There is alot going on! A question to consider is what would you consider the minimum bar for merging? Thanks, Jason
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jason Gunthorpe via iommu <iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org> To: Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@redhat.com> Cc: Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@linaro.org>, Chaitanya Kulkarni <chaitanyak@nvidia.com>, kvm@vger.kernel.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>, Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>, Niklas Schnelle <schnelle@linux.ibm.com>, Kevin Tian <kevin.tian@intel.com>, Daniel Jordan <daniel.m.jordan@oracle.com>, iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org, Joao Martins <joao.m.martins@oracle.com>, David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 11/12] iommufd: vfio container FD ioctl compatibility Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:11:59 -0300 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20220324231159.GA11336@nvidia.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20220324160403.42131028.alex.williamson@redhat.com> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 04:04:03PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:33:42 -0300 > Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 04:51:25PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote: > > > > > My overall question here would be whether we can actually achieve a > > > compatibility interface that has sufficient feature transparency that we > > > can dump vfio code in favor of this interface, or will there be enough > > > niche use cases that we need to keep type1 and vfio containers around > > > through a deprecation process? > > > > Other than SPAPR, I think we can. > > Does this mean #ifdef CONFIG_PPC in vfio core to retain infrastructure > for POWER support? Certainly initialy - I have no ability to do better than that. I'm hoping someone from IBM will be willing to work on this in the long run and we can do better. > > I don't think this is compatibility. No kernel today triggers qemu to > > use this feature as no kernel supports live migration. No existing > > qemu will trigger this feature with new kernels that support live > > migration v2. Therefore we can adjust qemu's dirty tracking at the > > same time we enable migration v2 in qemu. > > I guess I was assuming that enabling v2 migration in QEMU was dependent > on the existing type1 dirty tracking because it's the only means we > have to tell QEMU that all memory is perpetually dirty when we have a > DMA device. Is that not correct? I haven't looked closely at this part in qemu, but IMHO, if qemu sees that it has VFIO migration support but does not have any DMA dirty tracking capability it should not do precopy flows. If there is a bug here we should certainly fix it before progressing the v2 patches. I'll ask Yishai & Co to take a look. > > Intel no-snoop is simple enough, just needs some Intel cleanup parts. Patches for this exist now > > mdev will come along with the final VFIO integration, all the really > > hard parts are done already. The VFIO integration is a medium sized > > task overall. > > > > So, I'm not ready to give up yet :) > > Ok, that's a more promising outlook than I was inferring from the long > list of missing features. Yeah, it is just long, but they are not scary things, just priorites and patch planning. > > I think we can get there pretty quickly, or at least I haven't got > > anything that is scaring me alot (beyond SPAPR of course) > > > > For the dpdk/etcs of the world I think we are already there. > > That's essentially what I'm trying to reconcile, we're racing both > to round out the compatibility interface to fully support QEMU, while > also updating QEMU to use iommufd directly so it won't need that full > support. It's a confusing message. Thanks, The long term purpose of compatibility is to provide a config option to allow type 1 to be turned off and continue to support old user space (eg in containers) that is running old qemu/dpdk/spdk/etc. This shows that we have a plan/path to allow a distro to support only one iommu interface in their kernel should they choose without having to sacrifice uABI compatibility. As for racing, my intention is to leave the compat interface alone for awhile - the more urgent things in on my personal list are the RFC for dirty tracking, mlx5 support for dirty tracking, and VFIO preparation for iommufd support. Eric and Yi are focusing on userspace page tables and qemu updates. Joao is working on implementing iommu driver dirty tracking Lu and Jacob are working on getting PASID support infrastructure together. There is alot going on! A question to consider is what would you consider the minimum bar for merging? Thanks, Jason _______________________________________________ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/iommu
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-03-24 23:12 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 244+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2022-03-18 17:27 [PATCH RFC 00/12] IOMMUFD Generic interface Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 01/12] interval-tree: Add a utility to iterate over spans in an interval tree Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 02/12] iommufd: Overview documentation Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 03/12] iommufd: File descriptor, context, kconfig and makefiles Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-22 14:18 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-22 14:18 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-22 14:50 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-22 14:50 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 04/12] kernel/user: Allow user::locked_vm to be usable for iommufd Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-22 14:28 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-22 14:28 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-22 14:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-22 14:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-22 15:29 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-22 15:29 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-22 16:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-22 16:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-24 2:11 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 2:11 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 2:27 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-24 2:27 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-24 2:42 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 2:42 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 2:57 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-24 2:57 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-24 3:15 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 3:15 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 3:50 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-24 3:50 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-24 4:29 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 4:29 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 11:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-24 11:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-28 1:53 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-28 1:53 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-28 12:22 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-28 12:22 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-29 4:59 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-29 4:59 ` Jason Wang 2022-03-29 11:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-29 11:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-28 13:14 ` Sean Mooney 2022-03-28 13:14 ` Sean Mooney 2022-03-28 14:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-28 14:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-24 20:40 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 20:40 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 22:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-24 22:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-24 22:41 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 22:41 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-22 16:31 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-22 16:31 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-22 16:41 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-22 16:41 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 05/12] iommufd: PFN handling for iopt_pages Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-23 15:37 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-23 15:37 ` Niklas Schnelle 2022-03-23 16:09 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-23 16:09 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 06/12] iommufd: Algorithms for PFN storage Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 07/12] iommufd: Data structure to provide IOVA to PFN mapping Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-22 22:15 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-22 22:15 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 18:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-23 18:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-24 3:09 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 3:09 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 12:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-24 12:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-25 13:34 ` zhangfei.gao 2022-03-25 13:34 ` zhangfei.gao 2022-03-25 17:19 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-25 17:19 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-13 14:02 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-13 14:02 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-13 14:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-13 14:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-04-13 14:49 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-13 14:49 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-17 14:56 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-17 14:56 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-18 10:47 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-18 10:47 ` Yi Liu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 08/12] iommufd: IOCTLs for the io_pagetable Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-23 19:10 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 19:10 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 19:34 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-23 19:34 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-23 20:04 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 20:04 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 20:34 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-23 20:34 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-23 22:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-23 22:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-24 7:25 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 7:25 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 13:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-24 13:46 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-25 2:15 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-25 2:15 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-27 2:32 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-27 2:32 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-27 14:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-27 14:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-28 17:17 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-28 17:17 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-28 18:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-28 18:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-28 19:47 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-28 19:47 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-28 21:26 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-28 21:26 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 6:46 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-24 6:46 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-30 13:35 ` Yi Liu 2022-03-30 13:35 ` Yi Liu 2022-03-31 12:59 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-31 12:59 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-01 13:30 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-01 13:30 ` Yi Liu 2022-03-31 4:36 ` David Gibson 2022-03-31 4:36 ` David Gibson 2022-03-31 5:41 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-31 5:41 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-31 12:58 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-31 12:58 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-28 5:58 ` David Gibson 2022-04-28 5:58 ` David Gibson 2022-04-28 14:22 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-28 14:22 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-04-29 6:00 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 6:00 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 12:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-29 12:54 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-04-30 14:44 ` David Gibson 2022-04-30 14:44 ` David Gibson 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 09/12] iommufd: Add a HW pagetable object Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 10/12] iommufd: Add kAPI toward external drivers Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-23 18:10 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 18:10 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 18:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-23 18:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-11 12:54 ` Yi Liu 2022-05-11 12:54 ` Yi Liu 2022-05-19 9:45 ` Yi Liu 2022-05-19 9:45 ` Yi Liu 2022-05-19 12:35 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-19 12:35 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 11/12] iommufd: vfio container FD ioctl compatibility Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-23 22:51 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-23 22:51 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 0:33 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-24 0:33 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-24 8:13 ` Eric Auger 2022-03-24 8:13 ` Eric Auger 2022-03-24 22:04 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 22:04 ` Alex Williamson 2022-03-24 23:11 ` Jason Gunthorpe [this message] 2022-03-24 23:11 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-03-25 3:10 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-25 3:10 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-03-25 11:24 ` Joao Martins 2022-03-25 11:24 ` Joao Martins 2022-04-28 14:53 ` David Gibson 2022-04-28 14:53 ` David Gibson 2022-04-28 15:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-28 15:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-04-29 1:21 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-04-29 1:21 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-04-29 6:22 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 6:22 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 12:50 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-29 12:50 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-02 4:10 ` David Gibson 2022-05-02 4:10 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 6:20 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 6:20 ` David Gibson 2022-04-29 12:48 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-29 12:48 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-02 7:30 ` David Gibson 2022-05-02 7:30 ` David Gibson 2022-05-05 19:07 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-05 19:07 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-06 5:25 ` David Gibson 2022-05-06 5:25 ` David Gibson 2022-05-06 10:42 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-06 10:42 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-09 3:36 ` David Gibson 2022-05-09 3:36 ` David Gibson 2022-05-06 12:48 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-06 12:48 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-09 6:01 ` David Gibson 2022-05-09 6:01 ` David Gibson 2022-05-09 14:00 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-09 14:00 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-10 7:12 ` David Gibson 2022-05-10 7:12 ` David Gibson 2022-05-10 19:00 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-10 19:00 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-11 3:15 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-11 3:15 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-11 16:32 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-11 16:32 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-11 23:23 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-11 23:23 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-13 4:35 ` David Gibson 2022-05-13 4:35 ` David Gibson 2022-05-11 4:40 ` David Gibson 2022-05-11 4:40 ` David Gibson 2022-05-11 2:46 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-11 2:46 ` Tian, Kevin 2022-05-23 6:02 ` Alexey Kardashevskiy 2022-05-23 6:02 ` Alexey Kardashevskiy 2022-05-24 13:25 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-05-24 13:25 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-05-25 1:39 ` David Gibson 2022-05-25 1:39 ` David Gibson 2022-05-25 2:09 ` Alexey Kardashevskiy 2022-05-25 2:09 ` Alexey Kardashevskiy 2022-03-29 9:17 ` Yi Liu 2022-03-29 9:17 ` Yi Liu 2022-03-18 17:27 ` [PATCH RFC 12/12] iommufd: Add a selftest Jason Gunthorpe 2022-03-18 17:27 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-04-12 20:13 ` [PATCH RFC 00/12] IOMMUFD Generic interface Eric Auger 2022-04-12 20:13 ` Eric Auger 2022-04-12 20:22 ` Jason Gunthorpe via iommu 2022-04-12 20:22 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2022-04-12 20:50 ` Eric Auger 2022-04-12 20:50 ` Eric Auger 2022-04-14 10:56 ` Yi Liu 2022-04-14 10:56 ` Yi Liu
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