From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> To: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com> Cc: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, "hannes@cmpxchg.org" <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, "peterz@infradead.org" <peterz@infradead.org>, "riel@redhat.com" <riel@redhat.com>, "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, "tytso@mit.edu" <tytso@mit.edu>, "linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>, "elladan@eskimo.com" <elladan@eskimo.com>, "npiggin@suse.de" <npiggin@suse.de>, "cl@linux-foundation.org" <cl@linux-foundation.org>, "minchan.kim@gmail.com" <minchan.kim@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 19:15:02 +0900 [thread overview] Message-ID: <2f11576a0905100315j2c810e96mc29b84647dc565c2@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20090510100335.GC7651@localhost> >> >> >> The patch seems reasonable but the changelog and the (non-existent) >> >> >> design documentation could do with a touch-up. >> >> > >> >> > Is it right that I as a user can do things like mmap my database >> >> > PROT_EXEC to get better database numbers by making other >> >> > stuff swap first ? >> >> > >> >> > You seem to be giving everyone a "nice my process up" hack. >> >> >> >> How about this? >> > >> > Why it deserves more tricks? PROT_EXEC pages are rare. >> > If user space is to abuse PROT_EXEC, let them be for it ;-) >> >> yes, typicall rare. >> tha problem is, user program _can_ use PROT_EXEC for get higher priority >> ahthough non-executable memory. > > - abuses should be rare > - large scale abuses will be even more rare, > - the resulted vmscan overheads are the *expected* side effect > - the side effects are still safe Who expect? The fact is, application developer decide to use PROT_EXEC, but side-effect cause end-user, not application developer. In general, side-effect attack mistaked guy, it's no problem. They can do it their own risk. but We know application developer and administrator are often different person. > So if that's what they want, let them have it to their heart's content. > > You know it's normal for many users/apps to care only about the result. > When they want something but cannot get it from the smarter version of > PROT_EXEC heuristics, they will go on to devise more complicated tricks. > > In the end both sides loose. > > If the abused case is important enough, then let's introduce a feature > to explicitly prioritize the pages. But let's leave the PROT_EXEC case > simple. No. explicit priotize mechanism don't solve problem anyway. application developer don't know end-user environment. they can't mark proper page priority.
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com> To: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com> Cc: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, "hannes@cmpxchg.org" <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, "peterz@infradead.org" <peterz@infradead.org>, "riel@redhat.com" <riel@redhat.com>, "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, "tytso@mit.edu" <tytso@mit.edu>, "linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>, "elladan@eskimo.com" <elladan@eskimo.com>, "npiggin@suse.de" <npiggin@suse.de>, "cl@linux-foundation.org" <cl@linux-foundation.org>, "minchan.kim@gmail.com" <minchan.kim@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 19:15:02 +0900 [thread overview] Message-ID: <2f11576a0905100315j2c810e96mc29b84647dc565c2@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20090510100335.GC7651@localhost> >> >> >> The patch seems reasonable but the changelog and the (non-existent) >> >> >> design documentation could do with a touch-up. >> >> > >> >> > Is it right that I as a user can do things like mmap my database >> >> > PROT_EXEC to get better database numbers by making other >> >> > stuff swap first ? >> >> > >> >> > You seem to be giving everyone a "nice my process up" hack. >> >> >> >> How about this? >> > >> > Why it deserves more tricks? PROT_EXEC pages are rare. >> > If user space is to abuse PROT_EXEC, let them be for it ;-) >> >> yes, typicall rare. >> tha problem is, user program _can_ use PROT_EXEC for get higher priority >> ahthough non-executable memory. > > - abuses should be rare > - large scale abuses will be even more rare, > - the resulted vmscan overheads are the *expected* side effect > - the side effects are still safe Who expect? The fact is, application developer decide to use PROT_EXEC, but side-effect cause end-user, not application developer. In general, side-effect attack mistaked guy, it's no problem. They can do it their own risk. but We know application developer and administrator are often different person. > So if that's what they want, let them have it to their heart's content. > > You know it's normal for many users/apps to care only about the result. > When they want something but cannot get it from the smarter version of > PROT_EXEC heuristics, they will go on to devise more complicated tricks. > > In the end both sides loose. > > If the abused case is important enough, then let's introduce a feature > to explicitly prioritize the pages. But let's leave the PROT_EXEC case > simple. No. explicit priotize mechanism don't solve problem anyway. application developer don't know end-user environment. they can't mark proper page priority. -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-05-10 10:15 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 336+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2009-04-28 4:44 Swappiness vs. mmap() and interactive response Elladan 2009-04-28 5:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 5:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 6:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 6:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 7:26 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 7:26 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 7:44 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 7:44 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 7:48 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 7:48 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 7:58 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 7:58 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 8:11 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 8:11 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 8:23 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki 2009-04-28 8:23 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki 2009-04-28 8:25 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 8:25 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 8:03 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 8:03 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 9:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 9:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 12:08 ` Theodore Tso 2009-04-28 12:08 ` Theodore Tso 2009-04-29 5:51 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 5:51 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 6:34 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-29 6:34 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-29 7:47 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 7:47 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 4:14 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 4:14 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 4:43 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-30 4:43 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-30 4:55 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 4:55 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 4:55 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 4:55 ` Elladan 2009-04-29 7:48 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 7:48 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 11:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 11:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 13:46 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 13:46 ` Elladan 2009-05-06 11:04 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-06 11:04 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 15:28 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-28 23:29 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first Rik van Riel 2009-04-28 23:29 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 3:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-29 3:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-29 17:06 ` Christoph Hellwig 2009-04-29 17:06 ` Christoph Hellwig 2009-04-29 6:42 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-29 6:42 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-29 13:30 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 13:30 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 15:47 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 15:47 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 16:07 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 16:07 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 16:18 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 16:18 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 17:14 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v3) Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 17:14 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-30 0:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 0:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 8:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-04-30 8:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-01 22:32 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 22:32 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 23:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 23:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 23:25 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 23:25 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-03 1:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:33 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 1:33 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 1:46 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:46 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-29 16:10 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-29 16:10 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-30 7:20 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 7:20 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 13:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-30 13:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-30 14:00 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 14:00 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 0:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 0:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 0:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 0:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 1:13 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 1:13 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 1:50 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 1:50 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 2:54 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 2:54 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 14:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 14:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 18:04 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 18:04 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 19:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 19:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 19:44 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 19:44 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 20:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:17 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 20:17 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 19:35 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 19:35 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 20:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 20:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 21:46 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 21:46 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 3:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 3:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 3:24 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 3:24 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 3:43 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 3:43 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-04 10:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-04 10:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 12:11 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang 2009-05-07 12:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-07 13:39 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 13:39 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 14:15 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 14:15 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 14:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 14:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 14:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 14:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 15:36 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 15:36 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 15:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 16:00 ` Lee Schermerhorn 2009-05-07 16:00 ` Lee Schermerhorn 2009-05-07 16:32 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 16:32 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 17:11 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 17:11 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 3:40 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 3:40 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 16:04 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 16:04 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-09 4:04 ` Elladan 2009-05-09 4:04 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 17:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-08 17:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-09 10:20 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-09 10:20 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-08 17:37 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-08 17:37 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-07 15:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-07 15:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-07 15:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 15:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 15:21 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:21 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 3:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 3:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 4:17 ` [RFC][PATCH] vmscan: report vm_flags in page_referenced() Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 4:17 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 12:09 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 12:09 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 12:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 12:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 14:01 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 14:01 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-09 6:56 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-09 6:56 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 23:45 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-10 23:45 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-17 11:25 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-17 11:25 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-07 20:44 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Andrew Morton 2009-05-07 20:44 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 8:16 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:16 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 19:58 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 19:58 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 22:00 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-08 22:00 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-08 22:15 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 22:15 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 22:53 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 22:53 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 22:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 22:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 8:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 8:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:07 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 9:07 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 9:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 9:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 10:06 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 10:06 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:36 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:36 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 13:45 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 13:45 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 13:56 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 13:56 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 14:51 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 14:51 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 14:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 14:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 20:13 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 20:13 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 20:37 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 20:37 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 21:23 ` Arjan van de Ven 2009-05-10 21:23 ` Arjan van de Ven 2009-05-11 10:03 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-11 10:03 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-10 21:29 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 21:29 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 9:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 9:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 9:29 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:29 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 10:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 10:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 10:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro [this message] 2009-05-10 10:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 11:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 11:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 11:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 11:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 12:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 12:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 12:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 12:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 13:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 13:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-12 2:50 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:50 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 4:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 4:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 13:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 13:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-16 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-16 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:51 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: report vm_flags in page_referenced() Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:51 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 6:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-12 6:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-12 6:44 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 6:44 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:52 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:52 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 3:00 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 3:00 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 20:54 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: protect a fraction of file backed mapped pages from reclaim Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 20:54 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 17:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 17:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 21:20 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 21:20 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 17:39 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 17:39 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 22:02 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 22:02 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 20:17 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 20:17 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 20:26 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 20:26 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-13 0:45 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-13 0:45 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-14 20:14 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-14 20:14 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-14 23:28 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-14 23:28 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-14 23:42 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-14 23:42 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-15 18:09 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-15 18:09 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-16 8:54 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-16 8:54 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 8:17 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 8:17 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 2:53 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: merge duplicate code in shrink_active_list() Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:53 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:58 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 2:58 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 3:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 3:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 7:26 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 7:26 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 11:48 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 11:48 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 11:57 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 11:57 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 13:32 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 13:32 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-16 9:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-16 9:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 3:02 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 3:02 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 7:30 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 7:30 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 8:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 9:34 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 9:34 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 14:25 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-08 14:25 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-08 14:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 14:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 17:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-08 17:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-04 8:04 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-04 8:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-01 3:09 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 3:09 ` Elladan
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