From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com> To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org> Cc: elladan@eskimo.com, peterz@infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu, kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com, linux-mm@kvack.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 17:46:43 -0400 [thread overview] Message-ID: <49FB6DC3.3090000@redhat.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20090501134528.be5f27b2.akpm@linux-foundation.org> Andrew Morton wrote: > On Fri, 01 May 2009 16:05:55 -0400 > Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com> wrote: > >> Are you open to evaluating other methods that could lead, on >> desktop systems, to a behaviour similar to the one achieved >> by the preserve-mapped-pages mechanism? > > Well.. it's more a matter of retaining what we've learnt (unless we > feel it's wrong, or technilogy change broke it) and carefully listening > to and responding to what's happening in out-there land. Treating mapped pages specially is a bad implementation, because it does not scale. The reason is the same reason we dropped "treat referenced active file pages special" right before the split LRU code was merged by Linus. Also, it does not help workloads that have a large number of unmapped pages, where we want to protect the frequently used ones from a giant stream of used-once pages. NFS and FTP servers would be a typical example of this, but so would a database server with postgres or mysql in a default setup. > The number of problem reports we're seeing from the LRU changes is > pretty low. Hopefully that's because the number of problems _is_ > low. I believe the number of problems is low. However, the severity of this particular problem means that we'll probably want to do something about it. > Given the low level of problem reports, the relative immaturity of the > code and our difficulty with determining what effect our changes will > have upon everyone, I'd have thought that sit-tight-and-wait-and-see > would be the prudent approach for the next few months. > > otoh if you have a change and it proves good in your testing then sure, > sooner rather than later. I believe the patch I submitted in this thread should fix the problem. I have experimented with the patch before and Elladan's results show that the situation is resolved for him. Furthermore, Peter and I believe the patch has a minimal risk of side effects. Of course, there may be better ideas yet. It would be nice if people could try to shoot holes in the concept of the patch - if anybody can even think of a way in which it could break, we can try to come up with a way of fixing it. > I still haven't forgotten prev_priority tho! The whole priority thing could be(come) a problem too, with us scanning WAY too many pages at once in a gigantic memory zone. Scanning a million pages at once will probably lead to unacceptable latencies somewhere :) -- All rights reversed.
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com> To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org> Cc: elladan@eskimo.com, peterz@infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu, kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com, linux-mm@kvack.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 17:46:43 -0400 [thread overview] Message-ID: <49FB6DC3.3090000@redhat.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20090501134528.be5f27b2.akpm@linux-foundation.org> Andrew Morton wrote: > On Fri, 01 May 2009 16:05:55 -0400 > Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com> wrote: > >> Are you open to evaluating other methods that could lead, on >> desktop systems, to a behaviour similar to the one achieved >> by the preserve-mapped-pages mechanism? > > Well.. it's more a matter of retaining what we've learnt (unless we > feel it's wrong, or technilogy change broke it) and carefully listening > to and responding to what's happening in out-there land. Treating mapped pages specially is a bad implementation, because it does not scale. The reason is the same reason we dropped "treat referenced active file pages special" right before the split LRU code was merged by Linus. Also, it does not help workloads that have a large number of unmapped pages, where we want to protect the frequently used ones from a giant stream of used-once pages. NFS and FTP servers would be a typical example of this, but so would a database server with postgres or mysql in a default setup. > The number of problem reports we're seeing from the LRU changes is > pretty low. Hopefully that's because the number of problems _is_ > low. I believe the number of problems is low. However, the severity of this particular problem means that we'll probably want to do something about it. > Given the low level of problem reports, the relative immaturity of the > code and our difficulty with determining what effect our changes will > have upon everyone, I'd have thought that sit-tight-and-wait-and-see > would be the prudent approach for the next few months. > > otoh if you have a change and it proves good in your testing then sure, > sooner rather than later. I believe the patch I submitted in this thread should fix the problem. I have experimented with the patch before and Elladan's results show that the situation is resolved for him. Furthermore, Peter and I believe the patch has a minimal risk of side effects. Of course, there may be better ideas yet. It would be nice if people could try to shoot holes in the concept of the patch - if anybody can even think of a way in which it could break, we can try to come up with a way of fixing it. > I still haven't forgotten prev_priority tho! The whole priority thing could be(come) a problem too, with us scanning WAY too many pages at once in a gigantic memory zone. Scanning a million pages at once will probably lead to unacceptable latencies somewhere :) -- All rights reversed. -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-05-01 21:48 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 336+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2009-04-28 4:44 Swappiness vs. mmap() and interactive response Elladan 2009-04-28 5:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 5:35 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 6:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 6:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 6:52 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 7:26 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 7:26 ` Elladan 2009-04-28 7:44 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 7:44 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 7:48 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 7:48 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 7:58 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 7:58 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 8:11 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 8:11 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-28 8:23 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki 2009-04-28 8:23 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki 2009-04-28 8:25 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 8:25 ` Balbir Singh 2009-04-28 8:03 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 8:03 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 9:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 9:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-28 12:08 ` Theodore Tso 2009-04-28 12:08 ` Theodore Tso 2009-04-29 5:51 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 5:51 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 6:34 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-29 6:34 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-29 7:47 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 7:47 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 4:14 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 4:14 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 4:43 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-30 4:43 ` Andrew Morton 2009-04-30 4:55 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 4:55 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 4:55 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 4:55 ` Elladan 2009-04-29 7:48 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 7:48 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 11:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 11:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 13:46 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 13:46 ` Elladan 2009-05-06 11:04 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-06 11:04 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-28 15:28 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-28 23:29 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first Rik van Riel 2009-04-28 23:29 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 3:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-29 3:36 ` Elladan 2009-04-29 17:06 ` Christoph Hellwig 2009-04-29 17:06 ` Christoph Hellwig 2009-04-29 6:42 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-29 6:42 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-29 13:30 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 13:30 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 15:47 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 15:47 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 16:07 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 16:07 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-29 16:18 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 16:18 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 17:14 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v3) Rik van Riel 2009-04-29 17:14 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-30 0:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 0:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-04-30 8:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-04-30 8:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-01 22:32 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 22:32 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 23:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 23:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 23:25 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 23:25 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-03 1:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:33 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 1:33 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 1:46 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 1:46 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-04-29 16:10 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-29 16:10 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-04-30 7:20 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 7:20 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 13:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-30 13:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-04-30 14:00 ` Elladan 2009-04-30 14:00 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 0:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 0:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 0:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 0:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 1:13 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 1:13 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 1:50 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 1:50 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 2:54 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 2:54 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 14:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 14:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 18:04 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 18:04 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 19:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 19:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 19:44 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 19:44 ` Ray Lee 2009-05-01 20:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:08 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:17 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 20:17 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 19:35 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 19:35 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 20:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:05 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-01 20:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 20:45 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-01 21:46 ` Rik van Riel [this message] 2009-05-01 21:46 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 3:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 3:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 3:24 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 3:24 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-03 3:43 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-03 3:43 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-04 10:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-04 10:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 12:11 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang 2009-05-07 12:11 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-07 13:39 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 13:39 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 14:15 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 14:15 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 14:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 14:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 14:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 14:38 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 15:36 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 15:36 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 15:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:59 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 16:00 ` Lee Schermerhorn 2009-05-07 16:00 ` Lee Schermerhorn 2009-05-07 16:32 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 16:32 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-07 17:11 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 17:11 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 3:40 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 3:40 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 16:04 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 16:04 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-09 4:04 ` Elladan 2009-05-09 4:04 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 17:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-08 17:18 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-09 10:20 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-09 10:20 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-08 17:37 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-08 17:37 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-07 15:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-07 15:10 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-07 15:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 15:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-07 15:21 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-07 15:21 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 3:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 3:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 4:17 ` [RFC][PATCH] vmscan: report vm_flags in page_referenced() Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 4:17 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 12:09 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 12:09 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 12:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 12:15 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 14:01 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 14:01 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-09 6:56 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-09 6:56 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 23:45 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-10 23:45 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-17 11:25 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-17 11:25 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-07 20:44 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Andrew Morton 2009-05-07 20:44 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 8:16 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:16 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:28 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 19:58 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 19:58 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 22:00 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-08 22:00 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-08 22:15 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 22:15 ` Andrew Morton 2009-05-08 22:53 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 22:53 ` Elladan 2009-05-08 22:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 22:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 8:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 8:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:07 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 9:07 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 9:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 9:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 10:06 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 10:06 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:36 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:36 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 13:45 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 13:45 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 13:56 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 13:56 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 14:51 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 14:51 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 14:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 14:59 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 20:13 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 20:13 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 20:37 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 20:37 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-10 21:23 ` Arjan van de Ven 2009-05-10 21:23 ` Arjan van de Ven 2009-05-11 10:03 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-11 10:03 ` Johannes Weiner 2009-05-10 21:29 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 21:29 ` Alan Cox 2009-05-10 9:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 9:20 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 9:29 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 9:29 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 10:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 10:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 10:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 10:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 11:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 11:21 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 11:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 11:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-10 12:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 12:19 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 12:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 12:39 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-10 13:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-10 13:17 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-12 2:50 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:50 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 4:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 4:35 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 13:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 13:20 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-16 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-16 9:26 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:51 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: report vm_flags in page_referenced() Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:51 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 6:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-12 6:23 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-12 6:44 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 6:44 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 11:44 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:52 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:52 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 3:00 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 3:00 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 20:54 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: protect a fraction of file backed mapped pages from reclaim Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 20:54 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 17:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 17:06 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 21:20 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 21:20 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 17:39 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 17:39 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 22:02 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 22:02 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 20:17 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 20:17 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 20:26 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-12 20:26 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-13 0:45 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-13 0:45 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-14 20:14 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-14 20:14 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-14 23:28 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-14 23:28 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-14 23:42 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-14 23:42 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-15 18:09 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-15 18:09 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-16 8:54 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-16 8:54 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 8:17 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 8:17 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 2:53 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: merge duplicate code in shrink_active_list() Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:53 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 2:58 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 2:58 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-12 3:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 3:03 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 7:26 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 7:26 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 11:48 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 11:48 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-12 11:57 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 11:57 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-12 13:32 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-12 13:32 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-16 9:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-16 9:30 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 3:02 ` [PATCH -mm] vmscan: make mapped executable pages the first class citizen Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 3:02 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 7:30 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 7:30 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 8:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 8:09 ` Wu Fengguang 2009-05-08 9:34 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 9:34 ` Minchan Kim 2009-05-08 14:25 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-08 14:25 ` Christoph Lameter 2009-05-08 14:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 14:34 ` Rik van Riel 2009-05-08 17:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-08 17:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro 2009-05-04 8:04 ` [PATCH] vmscan: evict use-once pages first (v2) Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-04 8:04 ` Peter Zijlstra 2009-05-01 3:09 ` Elladan 2009-05-01 3:09 ` Elladan
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