From: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org> To: Fabian Vogt <fabian@ritter-vogt.de> Cc: "Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>, "Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>, "Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>, "Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>, "Neil Armstrong" <narmstrong@baylibre.com>, "Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>, "Jamie Iles" <jamie@jamieiles.com>, "Krzysztof Adamski" <krzysztof.adamski@nokia.com>, "Alexander Shiyan" <shc_work@mail.ru>, "Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>, "Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>, "Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>, "Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>, "Alex Elder" <elder@linaro.org>, "Marc Gonzalez" <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>, "Hans Ulli Kroll" <ulli.kroll@googlemail.com>, "Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>, "Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>, "Vladimir Zapolskiy" <vz@mleia.com>, "Lubomir Rintel" <lkundrak@v3.sk>, "Koen Vandeputte" <koen.vandeputte@ncentric.com>, "Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>, "Barry Song" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>, "Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>, "Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.sourceforge.jp>, "Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, "Jonas Jensen" <jonas.jensen@gmail.com>, "Hartley Sweeten" <hsweeten@visionengravers.com>, "Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>, "Shawn Guo" <shawnguo@kernel.org> Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:33:56 +0100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CACRpkdYaMASWWDTX7hTt+xQnVPA=WTWNFk2eDnTjKoJF=LA7LQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <1702853.1557dWfJA4@linux-e202.suse.de> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:16 PM Fabian Vogt <fabian@ritter-vogt.de> wrote: > Am Samstag, 9. Januar 2021, 23:20:48 CET schrieb Arnd Bergmann: > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 1:06 AM Daniel Tang <dt.tangr@gmail.com> wrote: > > > * nspire -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2015 > > Most of the platform is just the DT sources and some small drivers around it, > so it's actually fairly low maintenance. So far the migration away from > panel-simple in 2019 > (https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20190805085847.25554-1-linus.walleij@linaro.org) > was the biggest required change so far. What we're seeing here is actually a port that is: - Finished - Has a complete set of working drivers - Supported - Just works I.e. it doesn't see much patches because it is pretty much perfect. We are so unused to this situation that it can be mistaken for the device being abandoned. I think it was Russell who first pointed out that this is actually the case for a few machines. > > Would either of you already have a guess for how long it makes > > sense to update kernels on it? > > > > I see that this is one of the more limited platforms with just 32MB > > of RAM (64MB in case of CX), and kernels only get more bloated over > > time, so I expect at some point you will be stuck with running old > > software. > > The kernel overhead isn't actually that bad. I just built today's 2ff90100ace8 > and booted it with a busybox-based initrd. free -m reports: > total used free shared buffers > 58 12 46 0 0 > > Relatively speaking, still mostly unused ;-) The stock OS actually uses more! > With 32MiB, the situation is definitely worse, but still manageable. Should > that change in the future, dropping just the Classic/CM variants would be a > possible option, but that still seems far enough away. 64 MB is perfectly fine to run Linux. OpenWrt-type distributions (also OpenEmbedded/YOCTO) run just fine with that. 32 MB certainly works. For example this is the Gemini D-Link DNS-313 which is my NAS and works perfectly on 64MB: root@DNS-313:~# free -m total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 56136 21032 28612 0 6492 23812 Swap: 131128 1280 129848 Not even using the fallback swap. I can add that at the time it is syncing a backup AND playing back a 1080p movie over SMB. The trick is using ksmbd rather than Samba. ksmbd is much less memory-intensive. I like to use this device for NAS since it is good at I/O, stable, maintained by myself and JustWorks(TM). Yours, Linus Walleij
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org> To: Fabian Vogt <fabian@ritter-vogt.de> Cc: "Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>, "Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>, "Neil Armstrong" <narmstrong@baylibre.com>, "Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>, "Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>, "Jamie Iles" <jamie@jamieiles.com>, "Krzysztof Adamski" <krzysztof.adamski@nokia.com>, "Alexander Shiyan" <shc_work@mail.ru>, "Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>, "Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>, "Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>, "Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>, "Alex Elder" <elder@linaro.org>, "Marc Gonzalez" <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>, "Hans Ulli Kroll" <ulli.kroll@googlemail.com>, "Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>, "Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>, "Vladimir Zapolskiy" <vz@mleia.com>, "Lubomir Rintel" <lkundrak@v3.sk>, "Koen Vandeputte" <koen.vandeputte@ncentric.com>, "Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>, "Barry Song" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>, "Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>, "Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>, "Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.sourceforge.jp>, "Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, "Jonas Jensen" <jonas.jensen@gmail.com>, "Hartley Sweeten" <hsweeten@visionengravers.com>, "Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>, "Shawn Guo" <shawnguo@kernel.org> Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:33:56 +0100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CACRpkdYaMASWWDTX7hTt+xQnVPA=WTWNFk2eDnTjKoJF=LA7LQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <1702853.1557dWfJA4@linux-e202.suse.de> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:16 PM Fabian Vogt <fabian@ritter-vogt.de> wrote: > Am Samstag, 9. Januar 2021, 23:20:48 CET schrieb Arnd Bergmann: > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 1:06 AM Daniel Tang <dt.tangr@gmail.com> wrote: > > > * nspire -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2015 > > Most of the platform is just the DT sources and some small drivers around it, > so it's actually fairly low maintenance. So far the migration away from > panel-simple in 2019 > (https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20190805085847.25554-1-linus.walleij@linaro.org) > was the biggest required change so far. What we're seeing here is actually a port that is: - Finished - Has a complete set of working drivers - Supported - Just works I.e. it doesn't see much patches because it is pretty much perfect. We are so unused to this situation that it can be mistaken for the device being abandoned. I think it was Russell who first pointed out that this is actually the case for a few machines. > > Would either of you already have a guess for how long it makes > > sense to update kernels on it? > > > > I see that this is one of the more limited platforms with just 32MB > > of RAM (64MB in case of CX), and kernels only get more bloated over > > time, so I expect at some point you will be stuck with running old > > software. > > The kernel overhead isn't actually that bad. I just built today's 2ff90100ace8 > and booted it with a busybox-based initrd. free -m reports: > total used free shared buffers > 58 12 46 0 0 > > Relatively speaking, still mostly unused ;-) The stock OS actually uses more! > With 32MiB, the situation is definitely worse, but still manageable. Should > that change in the future, dropping just the Classic/CM variants would be a > possible option, but that still seems far enough away. 64 MB is perfectly fine to run Linux. OpenWrt-type distributions (also OpenEmbedded/YOCTO) run just fine with that. 32 MB certainly works. For example this is the Gemini D-Link DNS-313 which is my NAS and works perfectly on 64MB: root@DNS-313:~# free -m total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 56136 21032 28612 0 6492 23812 Swap: 131128 1280 129848 Not even using the fallback swap. I can add that at the time it is syncing a backup AND playing back a 1080p movie over SMB. The trick is using ksmbd rather than Samba. ksmbd is much less memory-intensive. I like to use this device for NAS since it is good at I/O, stable, maintained by myself and JustWorks(TM). Yours, Linus Walleij _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-10 21:35 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 246+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-01-08 22:55 Old platforms: bring out your dead Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-08 22:55 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt 2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt 2021-01-09 22:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 22:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-09 0:16 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-09 0:16 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-09 17:32 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 17:32 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 21:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 5:56 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-09 5:56 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-09 21:52 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:52 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 6:21 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-10 6:21 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-10 10:44 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-10 10:44 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 9:50 ` David Laight 2021-01-11 9:50 ` David Laight 2021-01-13 10:27 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 10:27 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-13 12:17 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:17 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:21 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:21 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-15 0:03 ` Bernd Petrovitsch 2021-01-15 0:03 ` Bernd Petrovitsch 2021-01-15 0:24 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-15 0:24 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-15 8:59 ` David Laight 2021-01-15 8:59 ` David Laight 2021-01-13 12:30 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 12:30 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 12:56 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 12:56 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 13:44 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 13:44 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-02-04 21:01 ` Pavel Machek 2021-02-04 21:01 ` Pavel Machek 2021-02-05 9:13 ` David Laight 2021-02-05 9:13 ` David Laight 2021-02-05 9:29 ` Pavel Machek 2021-02-05 9:29 ` Pavel Machek 2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 21:18 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:18 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 21:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 20:09 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 20:09 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach 2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach 2021-01-09 21:19 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:19 ` Arnd Bergmann [not found] ` <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com> 2021-01-09 22:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 22:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 18:12 ` Fabian Vogt 2021-01-10 18:12 ` Fabian Vogt 2021-01-10 19:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 19:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 21:33 ` Linus Walleij [this message] 2021-01-10 21:33 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-11 0:33 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 0:33 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 12:32 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 12:32 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 12:36 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 12:36 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 8:45 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 8:45 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 16:46 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 16:46 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 17:27 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 17:27 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 19:51 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 19:51 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong 2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong 2021-01-10 15:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 15:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-10 21:46 ` Sam Ravnborg 2021-01-10 21:46 ` Sam Ravnborg 2021-01-11 8:05 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 8:05 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 14:55 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-11 14:55 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-12 0:26 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-12 0:26 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-12 0:50 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-12 0:50 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-12 14:37 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-12 14:37 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 17:57 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-11 18:09 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-11 15:04 ` Gerhard Pircher 2021-01-11 15:04 ` Gerhard Pircher 2021-01-12 14:44 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-12 14:44 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-12 22:46 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-12 22:46 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-13 7:57 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 8:09 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 8:21 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 8:21 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 13:25 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 13:25 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 8:15 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 8:15 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 10:39 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 10:39 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 3:54 ` New platforms: bring out your dead, was " Finn Thain 2021-01-14 3:54 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-14 9:41 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-14 9:41 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-14 9:48 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-14 9:48 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-14 21:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 21:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 22:54 ` Undesirable code, was Re: Old platforms etc Finn Thain 2021-01-14 22:54 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-14 23:09 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Max Filippov 2021-01-14 23:09 ` Max Filippov 2021-01-15 8:31 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 8:31 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 0:12 ` Old platforms never die, was " Finn Thain 2021-01-13 0:12 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-16 6:54 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-16 6:54 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-16 23:22 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-16 23:22 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-13 11:47 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 11:47 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-11 1:39 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 1:39 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 9:15 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:15 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:26 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:26 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:36 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:36 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:50 ` Greg Ungerer 2021-01-11 9:50 ` Greg Ungerer 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 10:13 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:13 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 8:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 9:16 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:16 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 10:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 10:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 10:37 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:37 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 9:40 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-11 9:40 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-11 10:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:40 ` efm32 is dead [Was: Old platforms: bring out your dead] Uwe Kleine-König 2021-01-11 8:49 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Alexander Sverdlin 2021-01-11 9:31 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:27 ` Alexander Sverdlin 2021-01-11 11:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:53 ` Alexander Sverdlin 2021-01-11 11:10 ` Viresh Kumar 2021-01-11 11:10 ` Viresh Kumar 2021-01-11 19:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 19:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 21:15 ` Mattias Wallin 2021-01-11 21:15 ` Mattias Wallin 2021-01-11 21:47 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 21:47 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-11 17:29 ` Måns Rullgård 2021-01-11 17:29 ` Måns Rullgård 2021-01-11 21:50 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 21:50 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-12 8:23 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-12 8:23 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter 2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter 2021-01-11 15:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 15:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan 2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan 2021-01-11 14:58 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 14:58 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux 2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux 2021-01-11 22:17 ` Alexandre Belloni 2021-01-11 22:17 ` Alexandre Belloni 2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2021-01-11 20:10 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 20:10 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song) 2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song) 2021-01-12 8:41 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-12 8:41 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 11:02 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 11:02 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 16:14 ` [v2] " Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 19:00 ` Krzysztof Hałasa 2021-01-13 19:00 ` Krzysztof Hałasa 2021-01-14 8:51 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 8:51 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 7:08 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-15 7:08 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-15 9:26 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 9:26 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 11:09 ` Leizhen (ThunderTown) 2021-01-15 11:09 ` Leizhen (ThunderTown) 2021-01-15 12:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 12:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-18 10:46 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-18 10:46 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z 2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z 2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin 2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin 2021-10-23 17:44 ` Maciej W. Rozycki 2021-10-23 17:44 ` Maciej W. Rozycki 2021-01-12 2:05 tedheadster
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