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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com>
Cc: "David Laight" <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>, "Willy Tarreau" <w@1wt.eu>,
	"Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Krzysztof Adamski" <krzysztof.adamski@nokia.com>,
	"Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>,
	"Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>,
	"Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	"Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>,
	"Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>,
	"Jamie Iles" <jamie@jamieiles.com>,
	"Barry Song" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>,
	"Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	"Linus Walleij" <linus.walleij@linaro.org>,
	"Jonas Jensen" <jonas.jensen@gmail.com>,
	"Marc Gonzalez" <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>,
	"Hartley Sweeten" <hsweeten@visionengravers.com>,
	"Lubomir Rintel" <lkundrak@v3.sk>,
	"Neil Armstrong" <narmstrong@baylibre.com>,
	"Shawn Guo" <shawnguo@kernel.org>,
	"Alex Elder" <elder@linaro.org>,
	"Alexander Shiyan" <shc_work@mail.ru>,
	"Koen Vandeputte" <koen.vandeputte@ncentric.com>,
	"Hans Ulli Kroll" <ulli.kroll@googlemail.com>,
	"Vladimir Zapolskiy" <vz@mleia.com>,
	"Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.osdn.me>,
	"Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>,
	"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	"Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>
Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:01:41 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210204210140.GB7529@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHp75Vf43_zqDX9K4GmkRd7fujY2zC8=LneSMFpC2qnJL_uG1A@mail.gmail.com>

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Hi!

> > > I think there were 486s with up to 256MB, which would still qualify as barely
> > > usable for a minimal desktop, or as comfortable for a deeply embedded
> > > system. The main limit was apparently the cacheable RAM, which is limited
> > > by the amount of L2 cache -- you needed a rare 1MB of external L2-cache to
> > > have 256MB of cached RAM, while more common 256KB of cache would
> > > be good for 64MB. Vortex86SX has no FPU or L2 cache at all, but supports
> > > 256MB of DDR2.
> >
> > There are also some newer (well less than 30 year old) cpus that are
> 
> (less than 10 years actually)
> 
> > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid
> > and (IIRC) rdtsc.
> > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable
> > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses.
> > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a
> > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues.
> 
> Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs
> (486 core + few i586 features).
> This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use.

We have open-hardware implementation for 486, AFAICT, thanks to MISTer
project. I'm not aware of open 586 core.

Being able to run recent Linux on open hardware sounds fun.
									Pavel
-- 
http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Andy Shevchenko <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com>
Cc: "Baruch Siach" <baruch@tkos.co.il>,
	"Geert Uytterhoeven" <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	"Neil Armstrong" <narmstrong@baylibre.com>,
	"Viresh Kumar" <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>,
	"Linus Walleij" <linus.walleij@linaro.org>,
	"Daniel Tang" <dt.tangr@gmail.com>,
	"Jamie Iles" <jamie@jamieiles.com>,
	"Krzysztof Adamski" <krzysztof.adamski@nokia.com>,
	"Alexander Shiyan" <shc_work@mail.ru>,
	"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Yoshinori Sato" <ysato@users.osdn.me>,
	"Russell King - ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	"Wei Xu" <xuwei5@hisilicon.com>,
	"Oleksij Rempel" <o.rempel@pengutronix.de>,
	"Alex Elder" <elder@linaro.org>,
	"Marc Gonzalez" <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>,
	"Hans Ulli Kroll" <ulli.kroll@googlemail.com>,
	"Uwe Kleine-König" <u.kleine-koenig@pengutronix.de>,
	"Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Vladimir Zapolskiy" <vz@mleia.com>,
	"Lubomir Rintel" <lkundrak@v3.sk>,
	"Koen Vandeputte" <koen.vandeputte@ncentric.com>,
	"Linux ARM" <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	"Barry Song" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>,
	"Arnd Bergmann" <arnd@kernel.org>,
	"Thomas Bogendoerfer" <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Jonas Jensen" <jonas.jensen@gmail.com>,
	"Hartley Sweeten" <hsweeten@visionengravers.com>,
	"David Laight" <David.Laight@aculab.com>,
	"Mark Salter" <msalter@redhat.com>,
	"Shawn Guo" <shawnguo@kernel.org>, "Willy Tarreau" <w@1wt.eu>
Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:01:41 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210204210140.GB7529@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHp75Vf43_zqDX9K4GmkRd7fujY2zC8=LneSMFpC2qnJL_uG1A@mail.gmail.com>


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Hi!

> > > I think there were 486s with up to 256MB, which would still qualify as barely
> > > usable for a minimal desktop, or as comfortable for a deeply embedded
> > > system. The main limit was apparently the cacheable RAM, which is limited
> > > by the amount of L2 cache -- you needed a rare 1MB of external L2-cache to
> > > have 256MB of cached RAM, while more common 256KB of cache would
> > > be good for 64MB. Vortex86SX has no FPU or L2 cache at all, but supports
> > > 256MB of DDR2.
> >
> > There are also some newer (well less than 30 year old) cpus that are
> 
> (less than 10 years actually)
> 
> > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid
> > and (IIRC) rdtsc.
> > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable
> > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses.
> > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a
> > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues.
> 
> Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs
> (486 core + few i586 features).
> This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use.

We have open-hardware implementation for 486, AFAICT, thanks to MISTer
project. I'm not aware of open 586 core.

Being able to run recent Linux on open hardware sounds fun.
									Pavel
-- 
http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-02-04 21:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 246+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-08 22:55 Old platforms: bring out your dead Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 22:55 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-08 23:32   ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-09 22:04   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 22:04     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-08 23:44   ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-09  0:16 ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-09  0:16   ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-09 17:32   ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 17:32     ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 21:59     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09  5:56 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-09  5:56   ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-09 21:52   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 21:52     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10  6:21     ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-10  6:21       ` Willy Tarreau
2021-01-10 10:44       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-10 10:44         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11  9:50     ` David Laight
2021-01-11  9:50       ` David Laight
2021-01-13 10:27       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 10:27         ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:02         ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13 12:02           ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13 12:17           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:17             ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:21             ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:21               ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-15  0:03               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2021-01-15  0:03                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2021-01-15  0:24                 ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-15  0:24                   ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-15  8:59                   ` David Laight
2021-01-15  8:59                     ` David Laight
2021-01-13 12:30           ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 12:30             ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 12:56             ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 12:56               ` William Breathitt Gray
2021-01-13 13:44           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 13:44             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-02-04 21:01         ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2021-02-04 21:01           ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-05  9:13           ` David Laight
2021-02-05  9:13             ` David Laight
2021-02-05  9:29             ` Pavel Machek
2021-02-05  9:29               ` Pavel Machek
2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 17:34   ` Florian Fainelli
2021-01-09 21:18   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 21:18     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 17:43   ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 21:34   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 21:34     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:09     ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11 20:09       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach
2021-01-09 20:19   ` Baruch Siach
2021-01-09 21:19   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 21:19     ` Arnd Bergmann
     [not found] ` <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com>
2021-01-09 22:20   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-09 22:20     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 18:12     ` Fabian Vogt
2021-01-10 18:12       ` Fabian Vogt
2021-01-10 19:20       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 19:20         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 21:33       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-10 21:33         ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-11  0:33         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11  0:33           ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11 12:32           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 12:32             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 12:36             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-11 12:36               ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-09 23:12   ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10  8:45   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10  8:45     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 16:46     ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 16:46       ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 17:27       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 17:27         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 19:51         ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 19:51           ` Andrew Lunn
2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong
2021-01-10 15:51   ` Neil Armstrong
2021-01-10 15:56   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 15:56     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-10 17:35   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-10 21:46   ` Sam Ravnborg
2021-01-10 21:46     ` Sam Ravnborg
2021-01-11  8:05     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  8:05       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 14:55       ` chase rayfield
2021-01-11 14:55         ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12  0:26         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-12  0:26           ` Rob Landley
2021-01-12  0:50           ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12  0:50             ` chase rayfield
2021-01-12 14:37         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-12 14:37           ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11 17:57     ` Rob Landley
2021-01-11 18:09       ` Rob Landley
2021-01-11 15:04   ` Gerhard Pircher
2021-01-11 15:04     ` Gerhard Pircher
2021-01-12 14:44     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-12 14:44       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-12 22:46       ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-12 22:46         ` Linus Walleij
2021-01-13  7:57         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13  8:09           ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13  8:21           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13  8:21             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 13:25             ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13 13:25               ` Rob Landley
2021-01-13 12:02           ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 12:02             ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13  8:15         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13  8:15           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-13 10:39         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 10:39           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14  3:54           ` New platforms: bring out your dead, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-14  3:54             ` Finn Thain
2021-01-14  9:41         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-14  9:41           ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-14  9:48           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-14  9:48             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-14 21:21           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14 21:21             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14 22:54             ` Undesirable code, was Re: Old platforms etc Finn Thain
2021-01-14 22:54               ` Finn Thain
2021-01-14 23:09             ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Max Filippov
2021-01-14 23:09               ` Max Filippov
2021-01-15  8:31               ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15  8:31                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13  0:12       ` Old platforms never die, was " Finn Thain
2021-01-13  0:12         ` Finn Thain
2021-01-16  6:54         ` Rob Landley
2021-01-16  6:54           ` Rob Landley
2021-01-16 23:22           ` Finn Thain
2021-01-16 23:22             ` Finn Thain
2021-01-13 11:47       ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 11:47         ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-11  1:39 ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11  1:39   ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11  9:15   ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:15     ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:20     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:20       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:26       ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:26         ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
2021-01-11  9:36         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:36           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:50           ` Greg Ungerer
2021-01-11  9:50             ` Greg Ungerer
2021-01-11  9:42     ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11  9:42       ` Daniel Palmer
2021-01-11 10:13   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 10:13     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  8:19   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  8:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:59     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:16     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11  9:16       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:28       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:28         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-01-11 10:37         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 10:37           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  9:40     ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-11  9:40       ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2021-01-11 10:34       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 10:34         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:40 ` efm32 is dead [Was: Old platforms: bring out your dead] Uwe Kleine-König
2021-01-11  8:49 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Alexander Sverdlin
2021-01-11  9:31   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 10:27     ` Alexander Sverdlin
2021-01-11 11:00       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11  8:53 ` Alexander Sverdlin
2021-01-11 11:10 ` Viresh Kumar
2021-01-11 11:10   ` Viresh Kumar
2021-01-11 19:59   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 19:59     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 21:15     ` Mattias Wallin
2021-01-11 21:15       ` Mattias Wallin
2021-01-11 21:47       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 21:47         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 13:13   ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 17:29   ` Måns Rullgård
2021-01-11 17:29     ` Måns Rullgård
2021-01-11 21:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 21:50       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-12  8:23       ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-12  8:23         ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter
2021-01-11 14:22   ` Mark Salter
2021-01-11 15:00   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 15:00     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan
2021-01-11 14:44   ` Alexander Shiyan
2021-01-11 14:58   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 14:58     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux
2021-01-11 16:23   ` Sylvain Lemieux
2021-01-11 22:17   ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-01-11 22:17     ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni
2021-01-11 19:58   ` Thomas Petazzoni
2021-01-11 20:10   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:10     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-11 20:25   ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-12  8:41   ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-12  8:41     ` Marc Gonzalez
2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 10:30   ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-01-13 11:02   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 11:02     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 16:14 ` [v2] " Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-13 19:00   ` Krzysztof Hałasa
2021-01-13 19:00     ` Krzysztof Hałasa
2021-01-14  8:51     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-14  8:51       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15  7:08   ` Wei Xu
2021-01-15  7:08     ` Wei Xu
2021-01-15  9:26     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15  9:26       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15 11:09       ` Leizhen (ThunderTown)
2021-01-15 11:09         ` Leizhen (ThunderTown)
2021-01-15 12:04         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-15 12:04           ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-01-18 10:46           ` Wei Xu
2021-01-18 10:46             ` Wei Xu
2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z
2021-01-13 22:27   ` Richard Z
2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-02-05 13:37   ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-10-23 17:44 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2021-10-23 17:44   ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2021-01-12  2:05 tedheadster

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