From: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> To: Rob Landley <rob@landley.net> Cc: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de>, Gerhard Pircher <gerhard_pircher@gmx.net>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-m68k <linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org>, Sparc kernel list <sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>, Linux-sh list <linux-sh@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:21:10 +0100 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CAMuHMdUNe1A0RpkYdyRy9OJ+RDfUe_3KcAVnsCK+pP0jzJwtVA@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <b8eb1c83-d2f8-1c72-ca67-4160b90b3845@landley.net> Hi Rob, On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 8:58 AM Rob Landley <rob@landley.net> wrote: > On 1/12/21 4:46 PM, Linus Walleij wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 3:45 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > > <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote: > >> Yeah, I have the same impression that's the strong commercial interest pushes > >> hobbyist use of the Linux kernel a bit down. A lot of these changes feel like > >> they're motivated by corporate decisions. > >> > >> There has to be a healthy balance between hobbyist and commercial use. I understand > >> that from a commercial point of view, it doesn't make much sense to run Linux > >> on a 30-year-old computer. But it's a hobbyist project for many people and hacking > >> Linux stuff for these old machines has a very entertaining and educational factor. > > > > This is actually one of the most interesting things written in this discussion. > > > > I have both revamped and deleted subarchitectures in the ARM tree. We > > never deleted anyone's pet project *unless* they were clearly unwilling to > > work on it (such as simply testning new patches) and agreed that it will > > not go on. > > Another fun aspect of old hardware is it serves as prior art for patents. The > j-core hardware implementation schedule has in part been driven by specific > patents expiring, as in "we can't do $FEATURE until $DATE". Indeed, so that's why the release of j4 is postponed to 2016... /me runs date (again). > When I did an sh4 porting contract in 2018 I got that board updated to a > current-ish kernel (3 versions back from then-current it hit some intermittent > nor flash filesystem corruption that only occurred intermittently under > sustained load; had to ship so I backed off one version and never tracked it > down). But these days I'm not always on the same continent as my two actual sh4 > hardware boards, have never gotten my physical sh2 board to boot, and $DAYJOB is > all j-core stuff not sh4. Which is not upstream, investing in the future? > Testing that a basic superh system still builds and boots under qemu and j-core > I can commit to doing regularly. Testing specific hardware devices on boards I > don't regularly use is a lot harder. I have the sh7751-based landisk in my board farm, so it's receiving regular boot testing. That's one of the simpler SH-based platforms, though. Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds
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From: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> To: Rob Landley <rob@landley.net> Cc: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de>, Gerhard Pircher <gerhard_pircher@gmx.net>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-m68k <linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org>, Sparc kernel list <sparclinux@vger.kernel.org>, Linux-sh list <linux-sh@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:21:10 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CAMuHMdUNe1A0RpkYdyRy9OJ+RDfUe_3KcAVnsCK+pP0jzJwtVA@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <b8eb1c83-d2f8-1c72-ca67-4160b90b3845@landley.net> Hi Rob, On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 8:58 AM Rob Landley <rob@landley.net> wrote: > On 1/12/21 4:46 PM, Linus Walleij wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 3:45 PM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > > <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote: > >> Yeah, I have the same impression that's the strong commercial interest pushes > >> hobbyist use of the Linux kernel a bit down. A lot of these changes feel like > >> they're motivated by corporate decisions. > >> > >> There has to be a healthy balance between hobbyist and commercial use. I understand > >> that from a commercial point of view, it doesn't make much sense to run Linux > >> on a 30-year-old computer. But it's a hobbyist project for many people and hacking > >> Linux stuff for these old machines has a very entertaining and educational factor. > > > > This is actually one of the most interesting things written in this discussion. > > > > I have both revamped and deleted subarchitectures in the ARM tree. We > > never deleted anyone's pet project *unless* they were clearly unwilling to > > work on it (such as simply testning new patches) and agreed that it will > > not go on. > > Another fun aspect of old hardware is it serves as prior art for patents. The > j-core hardware implementation schedule has in part been driven by specific > patents expiring, as in "we can't do $FEATURE until $DATE". Indeed, so that's why the release of j4 is postponed to 2016... /me runs date (again). > When I did an sh4 porting contract in 2018 I got that board updated to a > current-ish kernel (3 versions back from then-current it hit some intermittent > nor flash filesystem corruption that only occurred intermittently under > sustained load; had to ship so I backed off one version and never tracked it > down). But these days I'm not always on the same continent as my two actual sh4 > hardware boards, have never gotten my physical sh2 board to boot, and $DAYJOB is > all j-core stuff not sh4. Which is not upstream, investing in the future? > Testing that a basic superh system still builds and boots under qemu and j-core > I can commit to doing regularly. Testing specific hardware devices on boards I > don't regularly use is a lot harder. I have the sh7751-based landisk in my board farm, so it's receiving regular boot testing. That's one of the simpler SH-based platforms, though. Gr{oetje,eeting}s, Geert -- Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that. -- Linus Torvalds
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-13 8:22 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 246+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-01-08 22:55 Old platforms: bring out your dead Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-08 22:55 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt 2021-01-08 23:32 ` Steven Rostedt 2021-01-09 22:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 22:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-08 23:44 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-09 0:16 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-09 0:16 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-09 17:32 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 17:32 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 21:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 5:56 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-09 5:56 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-09 21:52 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:52 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 6:21 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-10 6:21 ` Willy Tarreau 2021-01-10 10:44 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-10 10:44 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 9:50 ` David Laight 2021-01-11 9:50 ` David Laight 2021-01-13 10:27 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 10:27 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-13 12:17 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:17 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:21 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:21 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-15 0:03 ` Bernd Petrovitsch 2021-01-15 0:03 ` Bernd Petrovitsch 2021-01-15 0:24 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-15 0:24 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-15 8:59 ` David Laight 2021-01-15 8:59 ` David Laight 2021-01-13 12:30 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 12:30 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 12:56 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 12:56 ` William Breathitt Gray 2021-01-13 13:44 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 13:44 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-02-04 21:01 ` Pavel Machek 2021-02-04 21:01 ` Pavel Machek 2021-02-05 9:13 ` David Laight 2021-02-05 9:13 ` David Laight 2021-02-05 9:29 ` Pavel Machek 2021-02-05 9:29 ` Pavel Machek 2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 17:34 ` Florian Fainelli 2021-01-09 21:18 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:18 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 17:43 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 21:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 20:09 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 20:09 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach 2021-01-09 20:19 ` Baruch Siach 2021-01-09 21:19 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 21:19 ` Arnd Bergmann [not found] ` <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com> 2021-01-09 22:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-09 22:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 18:12 ` Fabian Vogt 2021-01-10 18:12 ` Fabian Vogt 2021-01-10 19:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 19:20 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 21:33 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-10 21:33 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-11 0:33 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 0:33 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 12:32 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 12:32 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 12:36 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-11 12:36 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin 2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-09 23:12 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 8:45 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 8:45 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 16:46 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 16:46 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 17:27 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 17:27 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 19:51 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 19:51 ` Andrew Lunn 2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong 2021-01-10 15:51 ` Neil Armstrong 2021-01-10 15:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 15:56 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-10 17:35 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-10 21:46 ` Sam Ravnborg 2021-01-10 21:46 ` Sam Ravnborg 2021-01-11 8:05 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 8:05 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 14:55 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-11 14:55 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-12 0:26 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-12 0:26 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-12 0:50 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-12 0:50 ` chase rayfield 2021-01-12 14:37 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-12 14:37 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 17:57 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-11 18:09 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-11 15:04 ` Gerhard Pircher 2021-01-11 15:04 ` Gerhard Pircher 2021-01-12 14:44 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-12 14:44 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-12 22:46 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-12 22:46 ` Linus Walleij 2021-01-13 7:57 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 8:09 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 8:21 ` Geert Uytterhoeven [this message] 2021-01-13 8:21 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 13:25 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 13:25 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 12:02 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 8:15 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 8:15 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-13 10:39 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 10:39 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 3:54 ` New platforms: bring out your dead, was " Finn Thain 2021-01-14 3:54 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-14 9:41 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-14 9:41 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-14 9:48 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-14 9:48 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-14 21:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 21:21 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 22:54 ` Undesirable code, was Re: Old platforms etc Finn Thain 2021-01-14 22:54 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-14 23:09 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Max Filippov 2021-01-14 23:09 ` Max Filippov 2021-01-15 8:31 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 8:31 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 0:12 ` Old platforms never die, was " Finn Thain 2021-01-13 0:12 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-16 6:54 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-16 6:54 ` Rob Landley 2021-01-16 23:22 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-16 23:22 ` Finn Thain 2021-01-13 11:47 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 11:47 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-11 1:39 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 1:39 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 9:15 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:15 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:20 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:26 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:26 ` John Paul Adrian Glaubitz 2021-01-11 9:36 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:36 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:50 ` Greg Ungerer 2021-01-11 9:50 ` Greg Ungerer 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 9:42 ` Daniel Palmer 2021-01-11 10:13 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:13 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 8:19 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 8:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 9:16 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 9:16 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 10:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 10:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2021-01-11 10:37 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:37 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 9:40 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-11 9:40 ` Thomas Bogendoerfer 2021-01-11 10:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:34 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:40 ` efm32 is dead [Was: Old platforms: bring out your dead] Uwe Kleine-König 2021-01-11 8:49 ` Old platforms: bring out your dead Alexander Sverdlin 2021-01-11 9:31 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 10:27 ` Alexander Sverdlin 2021-01-11 11:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 8:53 ` Alexander Sverdlin 2021-01-11 11:10 ` Viresh Kumar 2021-01-11 11:10 ` Viresh Kumar 2021-01-11 19:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 19:59 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 21:15 ` Mattias Wallin 2021-01-11 21:15 ` Mattias Wallin 2021-01-11 21:47 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 21:47 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-11 13:13 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-11 17:29 ` Måns Rullgård 2021-01-11 17:29 ` Måns Rullgård 2021-01-11 21:50 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 21:50 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-12 8:23 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-12 8:23 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter 2021-01-11 14:22 ` Mark Salter 2021-01-11 15:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 15:00 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan 2021-01-11 14:44 ` Alexander Shiyan 2021-01-11 14:58 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 14:58 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux 2021-01-11 16:23 ` Sylvain Lemieux 2021-01-11 22:17 ` Alexandre Belloni 2021-01-11 22:17 ` Alexandre Belloni 2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2021-01-11 19:58 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2021-01-11 20:10 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 20:10 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song) 2021-01-11 20:25 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song) 2021-01-12 8:41 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-12 8:41 ` Marc Gonzalez 2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 10:30 ` Andy Shevchenko 2021-01-13 11:02 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 11:02 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 16:14 ` [v2] " Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-13 19:00 ` Krzysztof Hałasa 2021-01-13 19:00 ` Krzysztof Hałasa 2021-01-14 8:51 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-14 8:51 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 7:08 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-15 7:08 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-15 9:26 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 9:26 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 11:09 ` Leizhen (ThunderTown) 2021-01-15 11:09 ` Leizhen (ThunderTown) 2021-01-15 12:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-15 12:04 ` Arnd Bergmann 2021-01-18 10:46 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-18 10:46 ` Wei Xu 2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z 2021-01-13 22:27 ` Richard Z 2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin 2021-02-05 13:37 ` Alexander Lobakin 2021-10-23 17:44 ` Maciej W. Rozycki 2021-10-23 17:44 ` Maciej W. Rozycki 2021-01-12 2:05 tedheadster
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