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From: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Jethro Beekman <jethro@fortanix.com>,
	"Christopherson, Sean J" <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>,
	Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>, <nhorman@redhat.com>,
	<npmccallum@redhat.com>, "Ayoun, Serge" <serge.ayoun@intel.com>,
	<shay.katz-zamir@intel.com>, <linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	"Carlos O'Donell" <carlos@redhat.com>,
	<adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org>
Subject: Re: RFC: userspace exception fixups
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:32:05 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181102173205.GM5150@brightrain.aerifal.cx> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrVW23Hmwj9DeYJ95mGd-_6ZG4obZG+evc2NdXEGud6DBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 10:16:02AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:05 AM Jethro Beekman <jethro@fortanix.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2018-11-02 10:01, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:56 AM Jethro Beekman <jethro@fortanix.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 2018-11-02 09:52, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > >>> On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 04:37:10PM +0000, Jethro Beekman wrote:
> > >>>> On 2018-11-02 09:30, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > >>>>> ... The intended convention for EENTER is to have an ENCLU at the AEX target ...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ... to further enforce that the AEX target needs to be ENCLU.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Some SGX runtimes may want to use a different AEX target.
> > >>>
> > >>> To what end?  Userspace gets no indication as to why the AEX occurred.
> > >>> And if exceptions are getting transfered to userspace the trampoline
> > >>> would effectively be handling only INTR, NMI, #MC and EPC #PF.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Various reasons...
> > >>
> > >> Userspace may have established an exception handling convention with the
> > >> enclave (by setting TCS.NSSA > 1) and may want to call EENTER instead of
> > >> ERESUME.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Ugh,
> > >
> > > I sincerely hope that a future ISA extension lets the kernel return
> > > directly back to enclave mode so that AEX events become entirely
> > > invisible to user code.
> >
> > Can you explain how this would work for things like #BR/#DE/#UD that
> > need to be fixed up by code running in the enclave before it can be resumed?
> >
> 
> Sure.  A better enclave entry function would complete in one of two ways:
> 
> 1. The enclave exited normally.  Some register output would indicate this.
> 
> 2. The enclave existed due to an exception or interrupt.  The kernel
> would be entered directly and notified of what happened.  The kernel
> would fix it up if needed (#PF), handle an interrupt (for en enclave
> exit due to an interrupt) and reenter the enclave.  If, of the error
> is not kernel-fixable-up, it would return back to userspace with some
> explanation of what happened.  Kind of like normal user code.
> 
> Alternatively, the CPU could directly distinguish between exceptions
> that need the enclave's attention (#BR) and those that don't.
> 
> The fact that user code is involved in resuming an enclave when a
> hardware interrupt occurs is silly IMO.

Agreed absolutely. If this is necessary, it seems like there should be
an agreed-upon protocol such that the kernel can make it happen via
returning to code in the vdso that performs the actual resume, so that
the application never sees it.

Rich

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Jethro Beekman <jethro@fortanix.com>,
	"Christopherson, Sean J" <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>,
	Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	nhorman@redhat.com, npmccallum@redhat.com, "Ayoun,
	Serge" <serge.ayoun@intel.com>,
	shay.katz-zamir@intel.com, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org,
	Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com>,
	adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org
Subject: Re: RFC: userspace exception fixups
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 13:32:05 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181102173205.GM5150@brightrain.aerifal.cx> (raw)
Message-ID: <20181102173205.c5hPxAm7wbOkqGjZP96TmGrALotqRf-K5kgE-Q283HA@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrVW23Hmwj9DeYJ95mGd-_6ZG4obZG+evc2NdXEGud6DBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 10:16:02AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:05 AM Jethro Beekman <jethro@fortanix.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2018-11-02 10:01, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:56 AM Jethro Beekman <jethro@fortanix.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 2018-11-02 09:52, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > >>> On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 04:37:10PM +0000, Jethro Beekman wrote:
> > >>>> On 2018-11-02 09:30, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > >>>>> ... The intended convention for EENTER is to have an ENCLU at the AEX target ...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ... to further enforce that the AEX target needs to be ENCLU.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Some SGX runtimes may want to use a different AEX target.
> > >>>
> > >>> To what end?  Userspace gets no indication as to why the AEX occurred.
> > >>> And if exceptions are getting transfered to userspace the trampoline
> > >>> would effectively be handling only INTR, NMI, #MC and EPC #PF.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Various reasons...
> > >>
> > >> Userspace may have established an exception handling convention with the
> > >> enclave (by setting TCS.NSSA > 1) and may want to call EENTER instead of
> > >> ERESUME.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Ugh,
> > >
> > > I sincerely hope that a future ISA extension lets the kernel return
> > > directly back to enclave mode so that AEX events become entirely
> > > invisible to user code.
> >
> > Can you explain how this would work for things like #BR/#DE/#UD that
> > need to be fixed up by code running in the enclave before it can be resumed?
> >
> 
> Sure.  A better enclave entry function would complete in one of two ways:
> 
> 1. The enclave exited normally.  Some register output would indicate this.
> 
> 2. The enclave existed due to an exception or interrupt.  The kernel
> would be entered directly and notified of what happened.  The kernel
> would fix it up if needed (#PF), handle an interrupt (for en enclave
> exit due to an interrupt) and reenter the enclave.  If, of the error
> is not kernel-fixable-up, it would return back to userspace with some
> explanation of what happened.  Kind of like normal user code.
> 
> Alternatively, the CPU could directly distinguish between exceptions
> that need the enclave's attention (#BR) and those that don't.
> 
> The fact that user code is involved in resuming an enclave when a
> hardware interrupt occurs is silly IMO.

Agreed absolutely. If this is necessary, it seems like there should be
an agreed-upon protocol such that the kernel can make it happen via
returning to code in the vdso that performs the actual resume, so that
the application never sees it.

Rich

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-11-02 17:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-01 17:53 RFC: userspace exception fixups Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-01 17:53 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-01 18:09 ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-01 18:09   ` Florian Weimer
2018-11-01 18:30   ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 18:30     ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 19:00   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-01 19:00     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-01 18:27 ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 18:27   ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 18:33 ` Jann Horn
2018-11-01 18:33   ` Jann Horn
2018-11-01 18:52   ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 18:52     ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 19:10     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-11-01 19:10       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-11-01 19:31       ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 19:31         ` Rich Felker
2018-11-01 21:24         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-11-01 21:24           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-11-01 23:22           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-01 23:22             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 16:30             ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 16:30               ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 16:37               ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-02 16:37                 ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-02 16:52                 ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 16:52                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 16:56                   ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-02 16:56                     ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-02 17:01                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 17:01                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 17:05                       ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-02 17:05                         ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-02 17:16                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 17:16                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 17:32                           ` Rich Felker [this message]
2018-11-02 17:32                             ` Rich Felker
2018-11-02 17:12                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 17:12                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 22:42                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-02 22:42                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-02 16:56               ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-02 16:56                 ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-02 17:06                 ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 17:06                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 17:13                   ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-02 17:13                     ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-02 17:33                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 17:33                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 17:48                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 17:48                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 18:27                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 18:27                           ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 19:02                           ` Jann Horn
2018-11-02 19:02                             ` Jann Horn
2018-11-02 22:04                             ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 22:04                               ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-02 23:27                               ` Jann Horn
2018-11-02 23:27                                 ` Jann Horn
2018-11-02 23:32                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 23:32                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-02 23:36                                   ` Jann Horn
2018-11-02 23:36                                     ` Jann Horn
2018-11-06 15:37                                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 15:37                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 16:57                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 16:57                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 17:03                                       ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 17:03                                         ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 17:19                                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 17:19                                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 18:20                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 18:20                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 18:41                                           ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 18:41                                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 19:02                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 19:02                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 19:22                                               ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 19:22                                                 ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 20:12                                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 20:12                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 21:00                                                   ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 21:00                                                     ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 21:07                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 21:07                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 21:41                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 21:41                                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 21:59                                                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 21:59                                                           ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 23:00                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 23:00                                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 23:35                                                             ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 23:35                                                               ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 23:39                                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-06 23:39                                                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-07  0:02                                                                 ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07  0:02                                                                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07  1:17                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-07  1:17                                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-07  6:47                                                                     ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-07  6:47                                                                       ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-07 15:34                                                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07 15:34                                                                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07 19:01                                                                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07 19:01                                                                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07 20:56                                                                         ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-07 20:56                                                                           ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-08 15:04                                                                           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-08 15:04                                                                             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-08 19:54                                                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-08 19:54                                                         ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-08 20:05                                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-08 20:05                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-08 20:10                                                           ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-08 20:10                                                             ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-08 21:16                                                             ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-08 21:16                                                               ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-08 21:50                                                               ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-08 21:50                                                                 ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-08 22:04                                                                 ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-08 22:04                                                                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-09  7:12                                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-11-09  7:12                                                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2018-11-06 23:17                                               ` Rich Felker
2018-11-06 23:17                                                 ` Rich Felker
2018-11-06 23:26                                                 ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-06 23:26                                                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07 21:27                                                   ` Rich Felker
2018-11-07 21:27                                                     ` Rich Felker
2018-11-07 21:33                                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-07 21:33                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-07 21:40                                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-07 21:40                                                       ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-08 15:11                                                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-08 15:11                                                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-06 17:00                                     ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-06 17:00                                       ` Dave Hansen
2018-11-02 22:37             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-02 22:37               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-01 19:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-11-01 19:06   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-11-02 22:07 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-02 22:07   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-18  7:15 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-18  7:18   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-18 13:02   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19  5:17     ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-19 14:05       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 14:59         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 15:29   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-19 16:02     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-19 17:00       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-20 10:11         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-20 15:19           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-11-20 22:55             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-21  5:17               ` Jethro Beekman
2018-11-21 15:17                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-24 17:07                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-26 14:35                   ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-26 22:06                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2018-11-20 18:09           ` Sean Christopherson
2018-11-20 22:46           ` Jarkko Sakkinen

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