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From: Russell King <rmk+lkml@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: Michael Loftis <mloftis@wgops.com>
Cc: Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de>,
	Marc Koschewski <marc@osknowledge.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Development tree, PLEASE?
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:25:34 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060120202534.GB12610@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5F952B75937998C1721ACBA8@d216-220-25-20.dynip.modwest.com>

On Fri, Jan 20, 2006 at 10:14:15AM -0700, Michael Loftis wrote:
> It's easier for an embedded system especially to pick a target, and then 
> stay with it.  Later when a new major version comes out the time can then 
> be invested ONCE to redevelop what needs redeveloping, which is easier to 
> do (yes I'm speaking from a business standpoint, sorry, but someone has to) 
> and to sell to management than nickel-and-dime to death of trying to follow 
> a development tree.

Please note that the current development strategy suits embedded folk.

With the old model, embedded folk could not wait two years for a (eg)
2.5 kernel to become a 2.6 kernel and then "stabilise".  In two years,
the new SoC is already in full-use in multiple applications and folk
have been and long gone developing their products.

So what happens is a massive conflict of interest - do we put
$mass-of-new-features into 2.4 kernels at the risk of destabilising
the current users, or do we push it into 2.5 and wait two or more
years before folk start using that code.

Like it or not, the latter causes a _lot_ of difficulties for a _lot_
of people, so much so that it's an economic disaster unless you're a
large corporation.  The former is also a non-starter because then you
end up with folk complaining that it should be in the development
branch.  It's a no-win situation - you can't satisfy everyone.

So, our current model is a compromise - you get _told_ that things
will change well in advance, and if you choose to ignore those warnings
(or don't respond to them) that's entirely your own problem.

It's like a stick and carrot scenario - see
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=stick%20and%20carrot

The carrot in this case is the notice about devfs removal.  The
stick is the actual devfs removal.  One's pleasant, the other isn't.
Which you take notice of is entirely your choice.

-- 
Russell King
 Linux kernel    2.6 ARM Linux   - http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/
 maintainer of:  2.6 Serial core

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-01-20 20:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 126+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-01-20 15:17 Development tree, PLEASE? Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 15:31 ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 15:59 ` Marc Koschewski
2006-01-20 16:07   ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 16:34     ` Marc Koschewski
2006-01-20 17:04       ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 16:35     ` Marc Koschewski
2006-01-20 17:06       ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 17:31         ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-20 20:43         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-20 16:41     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-20 17:14       ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 19:43         ` Greg KH
2006-01-20 20:56           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 21:06             ` Christopher Friesen
2006-01-20 23:00             ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-20 23:17             ` Russell King
2006-01-20 23:33               ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 23:55                 ` Russell King
2006-01-21  0:05                   ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-21  0:26                     ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-01-20 23:27             ` Greg KH
2006-01-20 23:52               ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-21  0:03                 ` Russell King
2006-01-21  1:38             ` Alan Cox
2006-01-20 20:25         ` Russell King [this message]
2006-01-20 22:05           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 22:54     ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-20 16:40   ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-20 16:48     ` Marc Koschewski
2006-01-20 16:55       ` Dmitry Torokhov
     [not found]         ` <20060120172431.GE5873@stiffy.osknowledge.org>
2006-01-20 17:43           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-20 17:53             ` Marc Koschewski
2006-01-20 18:00               ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-20 18:06                 ` Marc Koschewski
2006-02-13 17:17               ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-20 16:29 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-20 16:36   ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 16:50     ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-20 17:31       ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 19:03         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-20 19:10           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 23:20             ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-20 23:54               ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 19:21           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 19:24             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-01-20 20:00             ` Russell King
2006-01-20 21:21               ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 21:40                 ` Doug McNaught
2006-01-20 22:09                   ` Michael Loftis
2006-02-02 12:16                     ` David Weinehall
2006-02-02 18:25                       ` Michael Loftis
2006-02-02 20:10                         ` Dave Jones
2006-02-02 22:05                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2006-02-02 22:10                             ` Dave Jones
2006-02-02 22:19                               ` Sam Ravnborg
2006-02-02 22:31                                 ` Dave Jones
2006-02-02 22:42                                   ` Sam Ravnborg
2006-02-03  1:29                                 ` Roman Zippel
2006-02-03  4:45                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2006-02-03 12:28                               ` Roman Zippel
2006-02-03 16:04                                 ` Dave Jones
2006-02-02 22:01                         ` Willy Tarreau
2006-02-02 22:31                           ` Christopher Friesen
2006-02-03  5:08                             ` Willy Tarreau
2006-02-02 22:15                         ` David Weinehall
2006-02-02 22:47                           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 20:10             ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-20 20:20         ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-20 21:48           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 22:00             ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-01-20 22:14               ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-21  9:22             ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-21 14:52               ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-21 17:03                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-20 21:50           ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-21  9:13         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-20 16:53     ` Joe George
2006-01-20 17:03       ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-01-20 17:33         ` Joe George
     [not found]     ` <20060120121116.62a8f0a6.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-01-20 17:11       ` sean
2006-01-20 17:56         ` Development tree, please? Michael Loftis
     [not found]           ` <20060120131120.338ebf17.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-01-20 18:11             ` sean
2006-01-20 18:43               ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 17:11     ` Development tree, PLEASE? Diego Calleja
2006-01-21  1:56     ` Matthew Frost
2006-01-21  3:19       ` Matthew Frost
2006-01-21  7:22         ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-21  7:38           ` Lee Revell
2006-01-21 21:56             ` Sven-Haegar Koch
2006-01-21 22:18               ` Lee Revell
2006-01-21 22:40                 ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-21 22:47                   ` Lee Revell
2006-01-21 22:51                     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-22  8:57                       ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-22  9:41                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2006-01-22 16:09                         ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-22 22:59                         ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-01-21 22:49                   ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-21 23:03                   ` Lee Revell
2006-01-22  9:03                     ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-22 17:03                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-25 21:30                         ` Nix
2006-01-25 21:36                           ` Lee Revell
2006-01-25 22:12                             ` Nix
2006-01-26  8:44                               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-26 21:12                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-26 21:44                                   ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-01-22 17:14                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-01-22 17:24                       ` Lee Revell
2006-01-21 11:28           ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-21 18:09           ` Horst von Brand
2006-01-20 17:08 ` Gábor Lénárt
2006-01-21  0:36   ` Michael Loftis
2006-01-20 19:16 ` Greg KH
2006-01-20 19:27 ` Ben Collins
2006-01-20 22:04   ` Vincent Hanquez
2006-01-21 18:29     ` Johan Kullstam
2006-01-23 13:45       ` Vincent Hanquez
2006-01-24 15:35       ` Bob Copeland
2006-01-21 11:41 ` Ralf Baechle
2006-01-21  6:58 Michael Loftis
2006-03-14 13:57 Chuck Ebbert
2006-03-14 14:09 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-16 20:17   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-03-16 20:21     ` Jan Engelhardt

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