From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
To: Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>
Cc: Ken Brush <kbrush@gmail.com>,
linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:06:23 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200604250206.k3P26Ogf015931@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:24:24 +0200." <20060424082424.GH440@marowsky-bree.de>
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On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:24:24 +0200, Lars Marowsky-Bree said:
> That is about the dumbest argument I've heard so far, sorry. With the
> same argument, these people shouldn't be allowed to admin any computer
> system and be given a broom to wipe the floor, and let the experts take
> care of the world for them.
Anybody who's worked with a large community of actual end users will
agree that most of them *shouldn't* be allowed to admin their computer.
> Now that's a perfectly reasonable line of thought, and I've most
> certainly had it when it comes to HA and clusters myself, but in no
> means is it a good reasoning against the _technology_. If it is simpler
> to use, it will be simpler to use even for smart people, who can then
> put more care into their security profiles instead of worrying about the
> complexity.
I believe I stated quite clearly that there's certainly a place for tools that
allow smart people to do this work. That's *totally* different from marketing
the tool as "So simple, a chimpanzee could do it.".
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-04-25 2:06 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 253+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-04-02 9:40 [RFC] packet/socket owner match (fireflier) using skfilter Török Edwin
2006-04-03 15:18 ` James Morris
2006-04-03 15:39 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-05 15:06 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-07 17:34 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:24 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/7] fireflier LSM for labeling sockets based on its creator (owner) Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:27 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/7] " Török Edwin
2006-04-12 19:11 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-14 20:02 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:38 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks Török Edwin
2006-04-12 17:42 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-14 20:01 ` [RESEND][RFC][PATCH " Török Edwin
2006-04-17 16:06 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 16:23 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-17 17:03 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 17:08 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 17:33 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-17 18:02 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-17 18:15 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 19:26 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-17 19:31 ` James Morris
2006-04-17 19:47 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-17 20:02 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 14:52 ` David Safford
2006-04-19 15:26 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 17:57 ` Emily Ratliff
2006-04-19 18:33 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 12:27 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 15:47 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 22:15 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-04-17 22:48 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-17 22:58 ` James Morris
2006-04-18 2:00 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-17 22:55 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-18 1:44 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-04-18 11:58 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-18 16:50 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-04-18 17:27 ` Karl MacMillan
2006-04-18 19:31 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 19:50 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-18 20:13 ` [Fireflier-devel] " Török Edwin
2006-04-18 20:31 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-18 19:33 ` [Fireflier-devel] Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementationof " David Lang
2006-04-18 20:42 ` [Fireflier-devel] Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of " Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 20:23 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 18:32 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-19 18:48 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 19:50 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 18:50 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 23:24 ` Tony Jones
2006-04-18 20:14 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:35 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 21:07 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 12:22 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:26 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-18 20:57 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 21:36 ` James Morris
2006-04-18 23:09 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 23:27 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-18 23:57 ` James Morris
2006-04-19 1:48 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 6:40 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-19 6:56 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 11:41 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 15:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 16:00 ` Gene Heskett
2006-04-20 6:51 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-20 12:40 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-21 1:00 ` Nix
2006-04-21 14:24 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-24 8:14 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-25 0:19 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-25 7:21 ` Nix
2006-04-19 7:44 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 11:53 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 12:56 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 12:54 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 16:42 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 18:01 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 4:10 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-20 4:29 ` James Morris
2006-04-20 4:56 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-18 23:16 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-18 23:19 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-19 5:22 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 12:40 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 23:09 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 5:23 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-18 18:46 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-18 19:59 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 20:20 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 23:00 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 9:03 ` Bernhard R. Link
2006-04-18 21:38 ` Kurt Garloff
2006-04-19 7:04 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 7:36 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 12:10 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 12:55 ` Yuichi Nakamura
2006-04-19 15:44 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 16:02 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 16:06 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 21:10 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-19 21:48 ` Yuichi Nakamura
2006-04-20 12:44 ` Karl MacMillan
2006-04-19 13:09 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 11:59 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 23:09 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 19:37 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 13:05 ` Kazuki Omo(Company)
2006-04-18 13:37 ` James Morris
2006-04-18 14:45 ` Greg KH
2006-04-18 15:51 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-18 16:07 ` Greg KH
2006-04-17 19:20 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) James Morris
2006-04-17 19:51 ` Greg KH
2006-04-17 20:08 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 21:26 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-17 23:26 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-18 2:29 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-18 12:22 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 12:59 ` Stephen Smalley
[not found] ` <20060418132121.GE7562@sergelap.austin.ibm.com>
2006-04-18 13:40 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:13 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 23:01 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-20 0:19 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-20 15:27 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-21 15:23 ` Ken Brush
2006-04-21 19:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-22 20:52 ` Ken Brush
2006-04-23 9:45 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-24 8:24 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 12:42 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 12:44 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 12:45 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-24 12:54 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 13:09 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 13:16 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 13:29 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 13:40 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 13:54 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:07 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-25 19:06 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-25 4:07 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-24 14:08 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-25 16:29 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-25 22:26 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-26 12:14 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-26 16:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-27 6:56 ` Thomas Bleher
2006-04-24 12:55 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 12:56 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:02 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 14:04 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:31 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 14:28 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:45 ` David Lang
2006-04-24 16:50 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-25 16:31 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-25 16:23 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-25 2:06 ` Valdis.Kletnieks [this message]
2006-04-25 7:36 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-20 21:13 ` Pavel Machek
2006-04-23 3:50 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-23 9:33 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-23 14:58 ` Thomas Bleher
2006-04-24 8:28 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 8:37 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 8:54 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 9:12 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-25 0:31 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-20 17:46 ` Pavel Machek
2006-04-18 2:38 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 8:16 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 15:40 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 16:33 ` James Morris
2006-04-19 18:10 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 19:33 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-20 12:39 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 12:51 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-20 15:00 ` Removing EXPORT_SYMBOL(security_ops) (was Re: Time to remove LSM) Greg KH
2006-04-20 14:20 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 16:15 ` Greg KH
2006-04-20 16:23 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-20 16:34 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 16:46 ` Greg KH
2006-04-20 17:00 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 17:01 ` [PATCH] make security_ops EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL() Greg KH
2006-04-20 18:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-04-20 19:34 ` Greg KH
2006-04-21 16:50 ` Greg KH
2006-04-21 17:34 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-20 17:02 ` Removing EXPORT_SYMBOL(security_ops) (was Re: Time to remove LSM) Tony Jones
2006-04-20 20:14 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-19 19:22 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 20:48 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 20:59 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 21:08 ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-04-19 16:00 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 19:06 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 20:11 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 20:52 ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-04-19 20:54 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 21:05 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-20 12:20 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-21 13:30 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-21 15:05 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 13:45 ` [PATCH 0/4] MultiAdmin LSM Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:48 ` [PATCH 1/4] security_cap_extra() and more Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:49 ` [PATCH 2/4] Use of capable_light() Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:49 ` [PATCH 3/4] task_post_setgid() Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:50 ` [PATCH 4/4] MultiAdmin module Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 14:56 ` James Morris
2006-05-01 15:05 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 13:50 ` [PATCH 0/4] MultiAdmin LSM Arjan van de Ven
2006-05-01 16:03 ` [PATCH 4a/4] MultiAdmin LSM (LKCS'ed) Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 16:47 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 17:42 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 18:07 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 20:19 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 21:47 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-01 20:56 ` [PATCH 0/4] MultiAdmin LSM Pavel Machek
2006-05-02 4:22 ` James Morris
2006-04-21 16:25 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) Stephen Smalley
2006-04-21 18:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-21 19:56 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-22 11:13 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-20 23:41 ` Pavel Machek
2006-04-19 17:00 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-17 20:20 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:24 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 20:27 ` Time to remove LSM David S. Miller
2006-04-17 20:27 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:34 ` Greg KH
2006-04-17 20:38 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:43 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 20:53 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:45 ` alan
[not found] ` <2e00cdfd0604171437g1d6c6923w5db82f317ed0f56@mail.gmail.com>
2006-04-17 22:07 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 22:10 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 20:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-04-17 20:08 ` [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks David S. Miller
2006-04-17 18:20 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:39 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/7] sidtab - hashtable to store SIDs Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:41 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/7] exports Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:43 ` [RFC][PATCH 5/7] debugging/testing support Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:44 ` [RFC][PATCH 6/7] userspace Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:46 ` [RFC][PATCH 7/7] stacking support for capability module Török Edwin
2006-04-07 19:18 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-07 19:45 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/7] fireflier LSM for labeling sockets based on its creator (owner) Chris Wright
2006-04-08 7:41 ` edwin
2006-04-21 15:26 ` [RFC] packet/socket owner match (fireflier) using skfilter Mikado
2006-04-21 16:18 ` Török Edwin
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