From: David Lang <dlang@digitalinsight.com>
To: "Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>,
Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu, Ken Brush <kbrush@gmail.com>,
linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:45:01 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0604240730030.30494@qynat.qvtvafvgr.pbz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060424140407.GD22703@sergelap.austin.ibm.com>
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> Quoting Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk):
>> Thus this sort of stuff needs to be taken seriously. Can SuSE provide a
>> good reliable policy for AppArmour to people, can Red Hat do the same
>> with SELinux ?
>
> That's a little more than half the question. The other 40% is can users
> write good policies.
>
> I think it will, and already has, become easier for selinux. But in
> this case I wonder whether some sort of contest could be beneficial. We
> all know of Russel Coker's open root selinux play machines. That's a
> powerful statement. Things I'd like to see in addition are
One key difference between SELinux and AppArmor is that AA is _not_
designed to protect against the actions of root, it's designed to block
attacks that would let someone become root.
becouse of this strategy it's far simpler to configure becouse you do not
have to do all the work to control root. This also limits what it can
defend against, and so it's not 'perfect security' (and after all there is
only one way to get 'perfect security'
http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/papers/a1-firewall/ ), but
AA is still a useful tool.
the 'hard shell, soft center' approach isn't as secure as 'full
hardening' (assuming that both are properly implemented), but the fact
that it's far easier to understand and configure the hard shell means that
it's also far more likly to be implemented properly.
remember that it's not really a matter of people deciding not to write
SELinux policies and instead do AA, it's a matter of people deciding to
use AA instead of doing nothing.
David Lang
--
There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.
-- C.A.R. Hoare
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-04-24 15:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 253+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-04-02 9:40 [RFC] packet/socket owner match (fireflier) using skfilter Török Edwin
2006-04-03 15:18 ` James Morris
2006-04-03 15:39 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-05 15:06 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-07 17:34 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:24 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/7] fireflier LSM for labeling sockets based on its creator (owner) Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:27 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/7] " Török Edwin
2006-04-12 19:11 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-14 20:02 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:38 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks Török Edwin
2006-04-12 17:42 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-14 20:01 ` [RESEND][RFC][PATCH " Török Edwin
2006-04-17 16:06 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 16:23 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-17 17:03 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 17:08 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 17:33 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-17 18:02 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-17 18:15 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 19:26 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-17 19:31 ` James Morris
2006-04-17 19:47 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-17 20:02 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 14:52 ` David Safford
2006-04-19 15:26 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 17:57 ` Emily Ratliff
2006-04-19 18:33 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 12:27 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 15:47 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 22:15 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-04-17 22:48 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-17 22:58 ` James Morris
2006-04-18 2:00 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-17 22:55 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-18 1:44 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-04-18 11:58 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-18 16:50 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2006-04-18 17:27 ` Karl MacMillan
2006-04-18 19:31 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 19:50 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-18 20:13 ` [Fireflier-devel] " Török Edwin
2006-04-18 20:31 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-18 19:33 ` [Fireflier-devel] Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementationof " David Lang
2006-04-18 20:42 ` [Fireflier-devel] Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of " Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 20:23 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 18:32 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-19 18:48 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 19:50 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 18:50 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 23:24 ` Tony Jones
2006-04-18 20:14 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:35 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 21:07 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 12:22 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:26 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-18 20:57 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 21:36 ` James Morris
2006-04-18 23:09 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 23:27 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-18 23:57 ` James Morris
2006-04-19 1:48 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 6:40 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-19 6:56 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 11:41 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 15:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 16:00 ` Gene Heskett
2006-04-20 6:51 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-20 12:40 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-21 1:00 ` Nix
2006-04-21 14:24 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-24 8:14 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-25 0:19 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-25 7:21 ` Nix
2006-04-19 7:44 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 11:53 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 12:56 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 12:54 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 16:42 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 18:01 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 4:10 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-20 4:29 ` James Morris
2006-04-20 4:56 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-18 23:16 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-18 23:19 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-19 5:22 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 12:40 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 23:09 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 5:23 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-18 18:46 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-18 19:59 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 20:20 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 23:00 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-19 9:03 ` Bernhard R. Link
2006-04-18 21:38 ` Kurt Garloff
2006-04-19 7:04 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 7:36 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 12:10 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 12:55 ` Yuichi Nakamura
2006-04-19 15:44 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 16:02 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-19 16:06 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 21:10 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-19 21:48 ` Yuichi Nakamura
2006-04-20 12:44 ` Karl MacMillan
2006-04-19 13:09 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 11:59 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-17 23:09 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 19:37 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 13:05 ` Kazuki Omo(Company)
2006-04-18 13:37 ` James Morris
2006-04-18 14:45 ` Greg KH
2006-04-18 15:51 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-18 16:07 ` Greg KH
2006-04-17 19:20 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) James Morris
2006-04-17 19:51 ` Greg KH
2006-04-17 20:08 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 21:26 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-17 23:26 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-18 2:29 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-18 12:22 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-18 12:59 ` Stephen Smalley
[not found] ` <20060418132121.GE7562@sergelap.austin.ibm.com>
2006-04-18 13:40 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-18 20:13 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-18 23:01 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-20 0:19 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-20 15:27 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-21 15:23 ` Ken Brush
2006-04-21 19:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-22 20:52 ` Ken Brush
2006-04-23 9:45 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-24 8:24 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 12:42 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 12:44 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 12:45 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-24 12:54 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 13:09 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 13:16 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 13:29 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 13:40 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 13:54 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:07 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-25 19:06 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-25 4:07 ` Casey Schaufler
2006-04-24 14:08 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-25 16:29 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-25 22:26 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-26 12:14 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-26 16:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-04-27 6:56 ` Thomas Bleher
2006-04-24 12:55 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 12:56 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:02 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 14:04 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:31 ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 14:28 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-24 14:45 ` David Lang [this message]
2006-04-24 16:50 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-25 16:31 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-25 16:23 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-25 2:06 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-25 7:36 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-20 21:13 ` Pavel Machek
2006-04-23 3:50 ` Crispin Cowan
2006-04-23 9:33 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-23 14:58 ` Thomas Bleher
2006-04-24 8:28 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 8:37 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-24 8:54 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2006-04-24 9:12 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-25 0:31 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-20 17:46 ` Pavel Machek
2006-04-18 2:38 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-19 8:16 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 15:40 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 16:33 ` James Morris
2006-04-19 18:10 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 19:33 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-20 12:39 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 12:51 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-20 15:00 ` Removing EXPORT_SYMBOL(security_ops) (was Re: Time to remove LSM) Greg KH
2006-04-20 14:20 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 16:15 ` Greg KH
2006-04-20 16:23 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-20 16:34 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 16:46 ` Greg KH
2006-04-20 17:00 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-20 17:01 ` [PATCH] make security_ops EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL() Greg KH
2006-04-20 18:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-04-20 19:34 ` Greg KH
2006-04-21 16:50 ` Greg KH
2006-04-21 17:34 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-20 17:02 ` Removing EXPORT_SYMBOL(security_ops) (was Re: Time to remove LSM) Tony Jones
2006-04-20 20:14 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-19 19:22 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 20:48 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 20:59 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-19 21:08 ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-04-19 16:00 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 19:06 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-19 20:11 ` Greg KH
2006-04-19 20:52 ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-04-19 20:54 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-19 21:05 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-20 12:20 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-21 13:30 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-21 15:05 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 13:45 ` [PATCH 0/4] MultiAdmin LSM Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:48 ` [PATCH 1/4] security_cap_extra() and more Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:49 ` [PATCH 2/4] Use of capable_light() Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:49 ` [PATCH 3/4] task_post_setgid() Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 13:50 ` [PATCH 4/4] MultiAdmin module Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 14:56 ` James Morris
2006-05-01 15:05 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 13:50 ` [PATCH 0/4] MultiAdmin LSM Arjan van de Ven
2006-05-01 16:03 ` [PATCH 4a/4] MultiAdmin LSM (LKCS'ed) Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 16:47 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 17:42 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 18:07 ` Greg KH
2006-05-01 20:19 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 21:47 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-05-01 20:56 ` [PATCH 0/4] MultiAdmin LSM Pavel Machek
2006-05-02 4:22 ` James Morris
2006-04-21 16:25 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) Stephen Smalley
2006-04-21 18:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-21 19:56 ` Stephen Smalley
2006-04-22 11:13 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-20 23:41 ` Pavel Machek
2006-04-19 17:00 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-17 20:20 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:24 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 20:27 ` Time to remove LSM David S. Miller
2006-04-17 20:27 ` Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks) Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:34 ` Greg KH
2006-04-17 20:38 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:43 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 20:53 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 20:45 ` alan
[not found] ` <2e00cdfd0604171437g1d6c6923w5db82f317ed0f56@mail.gmail.com>
2006-04-17 22:07 ` Chris Wright
2006-04-17 22:10 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-04-17 20:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-04-17 20:08 ` [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks David S. Miller
2006-04-17 18:20 ` Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:39 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/7] sidtab - hashtable to store SIDs Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:41 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/7] exports Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:43 ` [RFC][PATCH 5/7] debugging/testing support Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:44 ` [RFC][PATCH 6/7] userspace Török Edwin
2006-04-07 18:46 ` [RFC][PATCH 7/7] stacking support for capability module Török Edwin
2006-04-07 19:18 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2006-04-07 19:45 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/7] fireflier LSM for labeling sockets based on its creator (owner) Chris Wright
2006-04-08 7:41 ` edwin
2006-04-21 15:26 ` [RFC] packet/socket owner match (fireflier) using skfilter Mikado
2006-04-21 16:18 ` Török Edwin
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