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From: "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>
To: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>, Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>,
	Mishi Choudhary <mishi@linux.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 19:36:14 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181021233614.GA17140@thyrsus.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com>

Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>:
> This patch series adds this new document to the kernel tree, as well as
> removes a paragraph from the existing Code of Conduct that was
> bothersome to many maintainers.

I think the changes have improved it.

There is still a process issue with how this code was promulgated that
is clearly bothering a lot of people, but I hope that problem is well
enough understood that we don't need to rehash it.  More transparency,
more consultation, and more notice of intent to revise would help
head off future problems.

I do have one content recommendation.  In the version at

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/process/code-of-conduct.rst

which I presume is current, I see a paragraph that reads as follows:

>In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
>contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and
>our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body
>size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and
>expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality,
>personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

I recommend that all the text from "everyone" on be struck as (a) unnecessary,
and (b) tending to embroil the project in politico-cultural wars that can do
it no good - and replaced by "every individual".

That is, the result would read:

>In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
>contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and
>our community a harassment-free experience for every individual.

That is all that needs to be said. Listing all those specific
categories of "regardless of" implicitly privileges certain kinds of
identity (those listed) and disfavors others (those not listed).
Further, some of the phrases used fo categories are political
shibboleths that unavoidably drag in American presumptions not
appropriate for an international project.

Best to leave the whole mess out and just pledge to treat individuals well.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>

My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org
Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be your own.



      parent reply	other threads:[~2018-10-21 23:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-20 13:49 [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` [PATCH 1/7] Code of conduct: Fix wording around maintainers enforcing the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 2/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Add document explaining how the Code of Conduct is to be interpreted Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 3/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Properly reference the TAB correctly Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 4/7] Code of Conduct: Provide links between the two documents Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 5/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Put in the proper URL for the committee Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 19:01   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21  7:18     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Greg KH
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [PATCH 6/7] Code of Conduct: Change the contact email address Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 18:28   ` Alan Cox
2018-10-20 18:45     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 19:14       ` jonsmirl
2018-10-21  8:27         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21  9:23           ` Greg KH
2018-10-20 19:24     ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-20 20:07       ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-21  0:13       ` Alan Cox
2018-10-21  6:19         ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-20 20:13     ` James Bottomley
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [PATCH 7/7] MAINTAINERS: Add an entry for the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-21 21:20 ` Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-21 22:26   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Josh Triplett
2018-10-21 23:37     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  1:44       ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 20:26     ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 22:46       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  1:31         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  6:26         ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  6:40           ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  6:46             ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  3:31       ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  4:25         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  4:52           ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  5:28             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  6:00               ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 20:45                 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  8:11           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 14:22             ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 15:43               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 17:51                 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 21:14             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-24 12:16       ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-25 21:14         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27  1:10           ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-28 21:48             ` NeilBrown
2018-11-01 16:45             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:11               ` Josh Triplett
2018-11-02 13:13                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:50               ` NeilBrown
2018-11-02 13:33                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03  8:36                   ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 17:37                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 21:06                       ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 22:23                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:52                 ` James Bottomley
2018-11-03  9:19                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-11-04 10:35         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21 22:33   ` Joe Perches
2018-10-21 22:37     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-22  9:09   ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-22 11:02   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " James Bottomley
2018-10-24  8:49   ` Laura Abbott
2018-10-25  7:56     ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-25  8:19       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-25 19:39         ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 20:47           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-25 21:41             ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:12               ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:38                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:52                   ` NeilBrown
2018-11-04 10:47                 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-25 23:06               ` Al Viro
2018-10-26  2:28                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26  5:49                   ` Al Viro
2018-10-27  6:52                 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27  7:32                   ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 16:18                     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Tim.Bird
2018-10-27 22:09                       ` Jiri Kosina
     [not found]                         ` <CAK2MWOtNUTjWy5pTcGco5DNurqNCc=9CfDJ-Ko-K+6HDC55ikg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-10-27 23:07                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-27 23:40                           ` Al Viro
2018-10-28 21:13                         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 23:32             ` Iván Chavero
2018-10-26 13:15           ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 15:50             ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26 15:53               ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 17:32             ` visionsofalice
2018-10-26 18:31               ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-27  7:12                 ` visionsofalice
2018-12-18 18:53                 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Analysis published? visionsofalice
2018-10-26 10:34         ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-29 22:31         ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2018-12-18 19:17           ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27  5:04       ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Additional restrictive terms visionsofalice
2018-12-18 20:55       ` The CoC regime is a License violation " visionsofalice
2018-12-19  1:17       ` visionsofalice
2018-12-23 16:05       ` visionsofalice
2018-10-25 22:02     ` Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-25  8:06   ` Pavel Machek
2018-10-25 11:20   ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-25 22:18     ` NeilBrown
2018-10-26  8:33       ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-26 22:40         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27 11:49           ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-21 23:36 ` Eric S. Raymond [this message]

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