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From: "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>
To: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: visionsofalice@redchan.it,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	rms@gnu.org, bruce@perens.com, moglen@columbia.edu,
	bkuhn@sfconservancy.org, editor@lwn.net,
	NeilBrown <neil@brown.name>, Laura Abbott <labbott@redhat.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>, Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>,
	Mishi Choudhary <mishi@linux.com>,
	linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant.
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:39:01 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181025193901.GD26403@thyrsus.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181025081911.GB11343@kroah.com>

Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 07:56:26AM +0000, visionsofalice@redchan.it wrote:
> > The linux devs can rescind their license grant.
> 
> No they can not, please do not keep spreading false information.

I think the confusion about whether applying GPL can be rescinded has
obscured the most serious actual threat vector.

Under Jacobsen vs. Katzer (535 f 3d 1373 fed cir 2008) authors of
GPLed software have a specific right to relief (including injunctive
relief) against misappropriation of their software. That ruling (which
was the case of first impression on the binding status of the GPL)
reputational damage is *specifically* recognized as grounds for relief.

The anti-CoC dissidents don't have to rescind their license grant to
cause a great deal of trouble. Instead they can invoke the doctrine
established in Jacobsen vs. Katzer, seeking restraining orders.  The
line of argument is so simple that I could probably brief it myself,
and I'm not a lawyer - just somebody who had to become a topic
expert in this area to do my job as the founding president of OSI.

For that matter, I don't think the question of whether the GPL can be
rescinded is settled - nor does my wife Cathy Raymond, Esq., a practicing
attorney who has also studied the relevant law.

Be very skeptical about what the FSF or SFC tells you about this; they
have a very strong institutional/ideological incentive to affirm
irrevocability regardless of what the law actually says.  I, on the
other hand, don't have an ideological stake to defend in that
argument; I'm telling you that the doctrine forbidding perpetual
grants may very well have teeth here. There is, at any rate,
significant risk that a court will see it that way.

Between Jacobsen vs. Katzer and the prohibition against perpetual grants
I think you are incurring a grave risk by assuming the dissidents have
no ammunition.

Better for both sides to climb down from a confrontational position
before real damage gets done.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>

My work is funded by the Internet Civil Engineering Institute: https://icei.org
Please visit their site and donate: the civilization you save might be your own.



  reply	other threads:[~2018-10-25 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-20 13:49 [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:49 ` [PATCH 1/7] Code of conduct: Fix wording around maintainers enforcing the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 2/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Add document explaining how the Code of Conduct is to be interpreted Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 3/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Properly reference the TAB correctly Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 4/7] Code of Conduct: Provide links between the two documents Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 13:50 ` [PATCH 5/7] Code of Conduct Interpretation: Put in the proper URL for the committee Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 19:01   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21  7:18     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Greg KH
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [PATCH 6/7] Code of Conduct: Change the contact email address Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-20 18:28   ` Alan Cox
2018-10-20 18:45     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Trond Myklebust
2018-10-20 19:14       ` jonsmirl
2018-10-21  8:27         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-21  9:23           ` Greg KH
2018-10-20 19:24     ` Tim.Bird
2018-10-20 20:07       ` Trond Myklebust
2018-10-21  0:13       ` Alan Cox
2018-10-21  6:19         ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-10-20 20:13     ` James Bottomley
2018-10-20 13:51 ` [PATCH 7/7] MAINTAINERS: Add an entry for the code of conduct Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-21 21:20 ` Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-21 22:26   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Josh Triplett
2018-10-21 23:37     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  1:44       ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 20:26     ` NeilBrown
2018-10-22 22:46       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23  1:31         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  6:26         ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  6:40           ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  6:46             ` Dan Carpenter
2018-10-23  3:31       ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  4:25         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  4:52           ` Al Viro
2018-10-23  5:28             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  6:00               ` Al Viro
2018-10-23 20:45                 ` NeilBrown
2018-10-23  8:11           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 14:22             ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 15:43               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-23 17:51                 ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-23 21:14             ` NeilBrown
2018-10-24 12:16       ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-25 21:14         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27  1:10           ` Josh Triplett
2018-10-28 21:48             ` NeilBrown
2018-11-01 16:45             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:11               ` Josh Triplett
2018-11-02 13:13                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-01 21:50               ` NeilBrown
2018-11-02 13:33                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03  8:36                   ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 17:37                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-03 21:06                       ` NeilBrown
2018-11-03 22:23                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-11-02 13:52                 ` James Bottomley
2018-11-03  9:19                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-11-04 10:35         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-21 22:33   ` Joe Perches
2018-10-21 22:37     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-10-22  9:09   ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-22 11:02   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " James Bottomley
2018-10-24  8:49   ` Laura Abbott
2018-10-25  7:56     ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-25  8:19       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2018-10-25 19:39         ` Eric S. Raymond [this message]
2018-10-25 20:47           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-10-25 21:41             ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:12               ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 22:38                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-25 22:52                   ` NeilBrown
2018-11-04 10:47                 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2018-10-25 23:06               ` Al Viro
2018-10-26  2:28                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26  5:49                   ` Al Viro
2018-10-27  6:52                 ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27  7:32                   ` Al Viro
2018-10-27 16:18                     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Tim.Bird
2018-10-27 22:09                       ` Jiri Kosina
     [not found]                         ` <CAK2MWOtNUTjWy5pTcGco5DNurqNCc=9CfDJ-Ko-K+6HDC55ikg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-10-27 23:07                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-27 23:40                           ` Al Viro
2018-10-28 21:13                         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-25 23:32             ` Iván Chavero
2018-10-26 13:15           ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 15:50             ` Eric S. Raymond
2018-10-26 15:53               ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-26 17:32             ` visionsofalice
2018-10-26 18:31               ` Eben Moglen
2018-10-27  7:12                 ` visionsofalice
2018-12-18 18:53                 ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Analysis published? visionsofalice
2018-10-26 10:34         ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant visionsofalice
2018-10-29 22:31         ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2018-12-18 19:17           ` visionsofalice
2018-10-27  5:04       ` The linux devs can rescind their license grant. - Additional restrictive terms visionsofalice
2018-12-18 20:55       ` The CoC regime is a License violation " visionsofalice
2018-12-19  1:17       ` visionsofalice
2018-12-23 16:05       ` visionsofalice
2018-10-25 22:02     ` Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document NeilBrown
2018-10-25  8:06   ` Pavel Machek
2018-10-25 11:20   ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-25 22:18     ` NeilBrown
2018-10-26  8:33       ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-26 22:40         ` NeilBrown
2018-10-27 11:49           ` Rainer Fiebig
2018-10-21 23:36 ` Eric S. Raymond

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