From: "Stephan Müller" <smueller@chronox.de> To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>, Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>, "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>, "Alexander E. Patrakov" <patrakov@gmail.com>, "Ahmed S. Darwish" <darwish.07@gmail.com>, "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>, Vito Caputo <vcaputo@pengaru.com>, Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@dilger.ca>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Ray Strode <rstrode@redhat.com>, William Jon McCann <mccann@jhu.edu>, zhangjs <zachary@baishancloud.com>, Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>, Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@0pointer.de>, Nicolai Stange <nstange@suse.de>, "Peter, Matthias" <matthias.peter@bsi.bund.de>, Marcelo Henrique Cerri <marcelo.cerri@canonical.com>, Roman Drahtmueller <draht@schaltsekun.de>, Neil Horman <nhorman@redhat.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH v24 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B compliance Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 13:16:36 +0100 Message-ID: <4999435.M7Dy0bkext@positron.chronox.de> (raw) In-Reply-To: <CALCETrVHdauN2ptZLSYAUDm=S3OGkxq=iH4qGxCuH0XCMKjGkQ@mail.gmail.com> Am Mittwoch, 13. November 2019, 05:48:30 CET schrieb Andy Lutomirski: Hi Andy, > > > - 6a26a3146e5fb90878dca9fde8caa1ca4233156a: My handler for /dev/urandom > > and > > getrandom(..., 0) are using one callback which issues a warning in both > > use > > cases (see lrng_sdrng_read). So I think this patch may not be applicable > > as > > the LRNG code implements warning about being unseeded. > > Probably true. > > What is the actual semantics of /dev/urandom with your series applied? > Is there any situation in which it will block? The LRNG tries to provide a 100% identical user interface to the existing / dev/random: - /dev/urandom never blocks - getrandom(..., 0) blocks until the LRNG has received 256 bits of entropy (i.e. the LRNG is fully seeded) Yet, both may issue a warning if CONFIG_WARN_ALL_UNSEEDED_RANDOM is set. > > > - 3e8e159da49b44ae0bb08e68fa2be760722fa033: I am happy to take that code > > which would almost directly apply. The last hunk however would be: > > > > if (!(flags & GRND_INSECURE) && unlikely(!lrng_state_operational())) { > > > > ==> Shall I apply it to my code base? If yes, how shall the changes to > > random.h be handled? > > This might be a question for Ted. Once the merge window opens, I'll > resubmit it. Ok, I will keep it out of the LRNG for now, but once your patch is merged, I would integrate it. > > > - 920e97e7fc508e6f0da9c7dec94c8073fd63ab4d: I would pass on this patch due > > to the following: it unconditionally starts removing the access to the > > TRNG (the LRNG's logical equivalent to the blocking_pool). As patch 10/12 > > of the LRNG patch series provides the TRNG that is a compile time option, > > your patch would logically and functionally be equivalent when > > deselecting > > CONFIG_LRNG_TRNG_SUPPORT in the LRNG without any further changes to the > > LRNG code. > > Given your previous email about the TRNG, I'm wondering what the API > for the TRNG should be. I am willing to grant that there are users > who need a TRNG for various reasons, and that not all of them can use > hwrng. (And the current hwrng API is pretty bad.) But I'm not > convinced that /dev/random or getrandom(..., GRND_RANDOM) is a > reasonable way to access it. A blocking_pool-style TRNG is a very > limited resource, and I think it could make sense to require some sort > of actual permission to use it. GRND_RANDOM has no access control at > all, and everyone expects /dev/random to be world-readable. The most > widespread user of /dev/random that I know of is gnupg, and gnupg > really should not be using it. > > Would it make sense to have a /dev/true_random that is 0400 by default > for users who actually need it? Then /dev/random and GRND_RANDOM > could work as they do with my patch, and maybe it does the right thing > for everyone. That is surely a reasonable way to do it. But I am not sure 0400 should be applied, but rather 0440. This should allow introducing a group in user space that processes who need the TRNG are not required to have root privilege, but rather need to be a member of some otherwise unprivileged group. > > > - 693b9ffdf0fdc93456b5ad293ac05edf240a531b: This patch is applicable to > > the > > LRNG. In case CONFIG_LRNG_TRNG_SUPPORT is not set, the TRNG is not > > present. > > Yet, the /dev/random and getrandom(GRND_RANDOM) would behave blocked until > > fully initialized. I have now added the general blocking until the LRNG is > > fully initialized to the common /dev/random and getrandom(GRND_RANDOM) > > interface function of lrng_trng_read_common. With that, the LRNG would be > > fully equivalent to this patch if CONFIG_LRNG_TRNG_SUPPORT is not set. > > Sounds reasonable. > > > By making the TRNG compile-time selectable, I was hoping to serve all > > users: I wanted to cover the conclusions of the discussion to remove the > > blocking_pool. On the other hand, however, I want to support requirements > > that need the blocking behavior. > > I find it odd that /dev/random would be either a TRNG or not a TRNG > depending on kernel configuration. For the small fraction of users > that actually want a TRNG, wouldn't it be better to have an interface > that fails outright if the TRNG is not enabled? Sure, I would have no concerns here. > > --Andy Ciao Stephan
next prev parent reply index Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2019-11-11 18:17 Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:18 ` [PATCH v24 01/12] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 23:54 ` Thomas Gleixner 2019-11-12 2:25 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-12 10:16 ` Thomas Gleixner 2019-11-12 22:30 ` kbuild test robot 2019-11-12 23:15 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-13 0:14 ` kbuild test robot 2019-11-13 0:25 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-24 4:51 ` Sandy Harris 2019-11-24 9:02 ` Stephan Mueller 2019-11-11 18:19 ` [PATCH v24 02/12] LRNG - allocate one SDRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:20 ` [PATCH v24 03/12] LRNG - /proc interface Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:20 ` [PATCH v24 04/12] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:21 ` [PATCH v24 05/12] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:21 ` [PATCH v24 06/12] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:22 ` [PATCH v24 07/12] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:23 ` [PATCH v24 08/12] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:23 ` [PATCH v24 09/12] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:24 ` [PATCH v24 10/12] LRNG - add TRNG support Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:26 ` [PATCH v24 11/12] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller 2019-11-12 19:58 ` Alexander E. Patrakov 2019-11-12 23:11 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-13 0:36 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-13 6:02 ` Alexander E. Patrakov 2019-11-14 1:46 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-11 18:26 ` [PATCH v24 12/12] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller 2019-11-12 20:55 ` kbuild test robot 2019-11-12 23:13 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-12 13:23 ` [PATCH v24 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B compliance Florian Weimer 2019-11-12 22:43 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-12 15:33 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-12 23:03 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-12 23:26 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-13 4:24 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-13 4:48 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-13 12:16 ` Stephan Müller [this message] 2019-11-16 9:32 ` [PATCH v25 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:33 ` [PATCH v25 01/12] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 11:25 ` Thomas Gleixner 2019-11-17 10:30 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 18:13 ` Nicolai Stange 2019-11-17 11:01 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:33 ` [PATCH v25 02/12] LRNG - allocate one SDRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:34 ` [PATCH v25 03/12] LRNG - /proc interface Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 16:39 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-17 12:16 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-19 10:06 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-19 10:55 ` Stephan Mueller 2019-11-19 17:40 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-16 23:36 ` Eric W. Biederman 2019-11-17 11:37 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:34 ` [PATCH v25 04/12] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:35 ` [PATCH v25 05/12] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:35 ` [PATCH v25 06/12] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:35 ` [PATCH v25 07/12] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:36 ` [PATCH v25 08/12] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:36 ` [PATCH v25 09/12] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller 2019-11-20 13:33 ` Neil Horman 2019-11-20 20:07 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-21 14:19 ` Neil Horman 2019-11-21 14:33 ` Stephan Mueller 2019-11-16 9:37 ` [PATCH v25 10/12] LRNG - add TRNG support Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 16:09 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-17 11:10 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-19 10:07 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-19 10:46 ` Stephan Mueller 2019-11-19 12:41 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman 2019-11-20 8:58 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-20 9:55 ` Alexander E. Patrakov 2019-11-20 13:29 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman 2019-11-20 19:51 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-20 19:57 ` Alexander E. Patrakov 2019-11-20 20:32 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman 2019-11-21 13:06 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:37 ` [PATCH v25 11/12] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 9:38 ` [PATCH v25 12/12] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller 2019-11-16 16:51 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-17 22:55 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-19 10:04 ` Andy Lutomirski 2019-11-19 17:17 ` Randy Dunlap 2019-11-20 9:01 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-21 12:18 ` Nicolai Stange 2019-11-21 15:18 ` Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:08 ` [PATCH v26 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:10 ` [PATCH v26 01/12] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller 2019-11-24 22:44 ` kbuild test robot 2019-11-25 6:29 ` Stephan Mueller 2019-11-23 20:10 ` [PATCH v26 02/12] LRNG - allocate one SDRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:11 ` [PATCH v26 03/12] LRNG - sysctls and /proc interface Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:11 ` [PATCH v26 04/12] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:31 ` [PATCH v26 05/12] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:32 ` [PATCH v26 06/12] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:32 ` [PATCH v26 07/12] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:33 ` [PATCH v26 08/12] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:34 ` [PATCH v26 09/12] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:34 ` [PATCH v26 10/12] LRNG - add TRNG support Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:34 ` [PATCH v26 11/12] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller 2019-11-23 20:35 ` [PATCH v26 12/12] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:29 ` [PATCH v27 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:30 ` [PATCH v27 01/12] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller 2020-01-16 6:09 ` kbuild test robot 2020-01-16 6:41 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-09 8:31 ` [PATCH v27 02/12] LRNG - allocate one DRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:31 ` [PATCH v27 03/12] LRNG - sysctls and /proc interface Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:32 ` [PATCH v27 04/12] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller 2020-01-11 7:09 ` kbuild test robot 2020-01-12 10:12 ` Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:32 ` [PATCH v27 05/12] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:32 ` [PATCH v27 06/12] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:33 ` [PATCH v27 07/12] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:33 ` [PATCH v27 08/12] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:34 ` [PATCH v27 09/12] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller 2020-01-10 0:24 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-10 7:45 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-09 8:34 ` [PATCH v27 10/12] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller 2020-01-10 0:20 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-10 8:27 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-09 8:35 ` [PATCH v27 11/12] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller 2020-01-09 8:35 ` [PATCH v27 12/12] LRNG - add power-on and runtime self-tests Stephan Müller 2020-01-10 0:22 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-10 7:48 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-13 10:39 ` Dan Carpenter 2020-01-13 10:46 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-15 10:31 ` [PATCH v28 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:31 ` [PATCH v28 01/12] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller 2020-01-16 0:11 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-16 7:22 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-15 10:32 ` [PATCH v28 02/12] LRNG - allocate one DRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:32 ` [PATCH v28 03/12] LRNG - sysctls and /proc interface Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:32 ` [PATCH v28 04/12] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:33 ` [PATCH v28 05/12] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:33 ` [PATCH v28 06/12] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller 2020-01-16 0:14 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-16 6:55 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-15 10:34 ` [PATCH v28 07/12] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller 2020-01-16 0:15 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-16 6:54 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-15 10:34 ` [PATCH v28 08/12] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:34 ` [PATCH v28 09/12] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller 2020-01-16 0:17 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-16 6:51 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-15 10:35 ` [PATCH v28 10/12] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller 2020-01-15 10:35 ` [PATCH v28 11/12] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller 2020-01-16 0:18 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-16 6:43 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-16 6:48 ` Randy Dunlap 2020-01-16 6:52 ` Stephan Mueller 2020-01-15 10:36 ` [PATCH v28 12/12] LRNG - add power-on and runtime self-tests Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:12 ` [PATCH v29 00/12] /dev/random - a new approach with full SP800-90B Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:13 ` [PATCH v29 01/12] Linux Random Number Generator Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:13 ` [PATCH v29 02/12] LRNG - allocate one DRNG instance per NUMA node Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:14 ` [PATCH v29 03/12] LRNG - sysctls and /proc interface Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:14 ` [PATCH v29 04/12] LRNG - add switchable DRNG support Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:15 ` [PATCH v29 05/12] crypto: DRBG - externalize DRBG functions for LRNG Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:16 ` [PATCH v29 06/12] LRNG - add SP800-90A DRBG extension Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:16 ` [PATCH v29 07/12] LRNG - add kernel crypto API PRNG extension Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:17 ` [PATCH v29 08/12] crypto: provide access to a static Jitter RNG state Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:18 ` [PATCH v29 09/12] LRNG - add Jitter RNG fast noise source Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:18 ` [PATCH v29 10/12] LRNG - add SP800-90B compliant health tests Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:19 ` [PATCH v29 11/12] LRNG - add interface for gathering of raw entropy Stephan Müller 2020-01-19 21:20 ` [PATCH v29 12/12] LRNG - add power-on and runtime self-tests Stephan Müller
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