From: "Martin J. Bligh" <mbligh@aracnet.com>
To: William Lee Irwin III <wli@holomorphy.com>,
Larry McVoy <lm@work.bitmover.com>,
Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
"Brown, Len" <len.brown@intel.com>,
Giuliano Pochini <pochini@shiny.it>,
Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Scaling noise
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:31:13 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <7420000.1062642672@[10.10.2.4]> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030904013253.GB4306@holomorphy.com>
> On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 06:06:53PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> Here's a thought. Maybe the next kernel summit needs to have a CC cluster
>> BOF or whatever. I'd be happy to show up, describe what it is that I see
>> and have you all try and poke holes in it. If the net result was that you
>> walked away with the same picture in your head that I have that would be
>> cool. Heck, I'll sponser it and buy beer and food if you like.
>
> It'd be nice if there were a prototype or something around to at least
> get a feel for whether it's worthwhile and how it behaves.
>
> Most of the individual mechanisms have other uses ranging from playing
> the good citizen under a hypervisor to just plain old filesharing, so
> it should be vaguely possible to get a couple kernels talking and
> farting around without much more than 1-2 P-Y's for bootstrapping bits
> and some unspecified amount of pain for missing pieces of the above.
>
> Unfortunately, this means
> (a) the box needs a hypervisor (or equivalent in native nomenclature)
> (b) substantial outlay of kernel hacking time (who's doing this?)
>
> I'm vaguely attached to the idea of there being _something_ to assess,
> otherwise it's difficult to ground the discussions in evidence, though
> worse comes to worse, we can break down to plotting and scheming again.
I don't think the initial development baby-steps are *too* bad, and don't
even have to be done on a NUMA box - a pair of PCs connected by 100baseT
would work. Personally, I think the first step is to do task migration -
migrate a process without it realising from one linux instance to another.
Start without the more complex bits like shared filehandles, etc. Something
that just writes 1,2,3,4 to a file. It could even just use shared root NFS,
I think that works already.
Basically swap it out on one node, and in on another, though obviously
there's more state to take across than just RAM. I was talking to Tridge
the other day, and he said someone had hacked up something in userspace
which kinda worked ... I'll get some details.
I view UP -> SMP -> NUMA -> SSI on NUMA -> SSI on many PCs -> beowulf cluster
as a continuum ... the SSI problems are easier on NUMA, because you can
wimp out on things like shmem much easier, but it's all similar.
M.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-09-04 2:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 152+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-09-03 9:41 Scaling noise Brown, Len
2003-09-03 11:02 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2003-09-03 11:19 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 11:47 ` Matthias Andree
2003-09-03 18:00 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 18:05 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 18:15 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 18:15 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 18:26 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 18:32 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-03 19:46 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 20:13 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-03 20:31 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 20:48 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 21:21 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 21:29 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 21:51 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 21:46 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 0:07 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-04 1:06 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 1:10 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 1:32 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 1:46 ` David Lang
2003-09-04 1:51 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 2:33 ` SSI clusters on NUMA (was Re: Scaling noise) Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 3:02 ` David Lang
2003-09-04 4:44 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 2:31 ` Martin J. Bligh [this message]
2003-09-04 2:40 ` Scaling noise Mike Fedyk
2003-09-04 2:50 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 3:49 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-04 2:48 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-04 17:05 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-09-07 21:18 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-07 23:07 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-07 23:47 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-08 0:57 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-08 3:55 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-08 4:47 ` Stephen Satchell
2003-09-08 5:25 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-08 8:32 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-04 0:58 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 1:12 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 2:49 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 3:15 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 3:38 ` Nick Piggin
2003-09-05 1:34 ` Robert White
2003-09-03 19:11 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-03 19:36 ` William Lee Irwin III
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-09-10 15:14 John Bradford
2003-09-10 10:01 John Bradford
2003-09-10 11:35 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-10 13:46 ` Bill Davidsen
2003-09-08 6:21 Brown, Len
2003-09-08 9:21 ` Eric W. Biederman
2003-09-03 17:07 Brown, Len
2003-09-03 17:32 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 18:07 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 18:07 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 18:25 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 23:47 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 23:52 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 23:55 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 18:28 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-09-03 18:31 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-03 20:11 ` Diego Calleja García
2003-09-03 18:11 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-03 19:56 ` Daniel Gryniewicz
2003-09-03 18:17 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 0:36 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 2:21 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 2:34 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 2:48 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 3:02 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 3:46 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-09-04 4:41 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-10 15:02 ` Timothy Miller
2003-09-10 15:12 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-28 1:51 ` Paul Jakma
2003-09-28 3:13 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-29 0:47 ` Paul Jakma
2003-10-22 1:22 ` Paul Jakma
2003-10-22 3:46 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-04 3:16 ` David Lang
2003-09-04 3:45 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 4:51 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 3:47 ` Davide Libenzi
2003-09-04 4:16 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 7:43 ` Davide Libenzi
[not found] <rx83.88x.5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <rxrp.8wt.1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <rxB3.gg.1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <rxB6.gg.5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <rydL.17V.1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <rGXO.5g9.7@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-09-03 15:33 ` Ihar 'Philips' Filipau
2003-09-03 7:10 John Bradford
2003-09-03 7:38 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-03 11:14 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-08 20:05 ` bill davidsen
2003-09-03 5:02 Samium Gromoff
2003-09-03 4:03 Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 4:12 ` Roland Dreier
2003-09-03 4:20 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 15:12 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 4:18 ` Anton Blanchard
2003-09-03 4:29 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 4:33 ` CaT
2003-09-03 5:08 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 5:44 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2003-09-03 6:12 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2003-09-03 12:09 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-03 15:10 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 16:01 ` Jörn Engel
2003-09-03 16:21 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 19:41 ` Mike Fedyk
2003-09-03 20:11 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 20:36 ` Rik van Riel
2003-09-04 20:47 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 21:30 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-03 8:11 ` Giuliano Pochini
2003-09-03 14:25 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-03 12:47 ` Antonio Vargas
2003-09-03 15:31 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-04 1:50 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-09-04 1:52 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 4:42 ` David S. Miller
2003-09-08 19:40 ` bill davidsen
2003-09-04 2:18 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 2:19 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-04 2:35 ` William Lee Irwin III
2003-09-04 2:40 ` Steven Cole
2003-09-04 3:20 ` Nick Piggin
2003-09-04 3:07 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-09-08 19:27 ` bill davidsen
2003-09-08 19:12 ` bill davidsen
2003-09-03 16:37 ` Kurt Wall
2003-09-06 15:08 ` Pavel Machek
2003-09-08 13:38 ` Alan Cox
2003-09-09 6:11 ` Rob Landley
2003-09-09 16:07 ` Ricardo Bugalho
2003-09-10 5:14 ` Rob Landley
2003-09-10 5:45 ` David Mosberger
2003-09-10 10:10 ` Ricardo Bugalho
2003-09-03 6:28 ` Anton Blanchard
2003-09-03 6:55 ` Nick Piggin
2003-09-03 15:23 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-03 15:39 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-03 15:50 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 0:49 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 2:21 ` Daniel Phillips
2003-09-04 2:35 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-09-04 2:46 ` Larry McVoy
2003-09-04 4:58 ` David S. Miller
2003-09-04 4:49 ` David S. Miller
2003-09-08 19:50 ` bill davidsen
2003-09-08 23:39 ` Peter Chubb
2003-09-03 17:16 ` William Lee Irwin III
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='7420000.1062642672@[10.10.2.4]' \
--to=mbligh@aracnet.com \
--cc=alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk \
--cc=len.brown@intel.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=lm@bitmover.com \
--cc=lm@work.bitmover.com \
--cc=pochini@shiny.it \
--cc=wli@holomorphy.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).