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From: Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>
To: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Cc: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	"torvalds@linux-foundation.org" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>, Chris Mason <clm@fb.clm>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" 
	<ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	"tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" 
	<tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 12:45:34 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <798B0FBF-D7A8-4631-8581-5D199DA50FF9@fb.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200705045505.GA2962@1wt.eu>

On 5 Jul 2020, at 0:55, Willy Tarreau wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 01:02:51PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote:
>> +Non-inclusive terminology has that same distracting effect which is 
>> why
>> +it is a style issue for Linux, it injures developer efficiency.
>
> I'm personally thinking that for a non-native speaker it's already
> difficult to find the best term to describe something, but having to
> apply an extra level of filtering on the found words to figure whether
> they are allowed by the language police is even more difficult.

Since our discussions are public, we’ve always had to deal with 
comments from people outside the community on a range of topics.  But 
inside the kernel, it’s just a group of developers trying to help each 
other produce the best quality of code.  We’ve got a long history 
together and in general I think we’re pretty good at assuming good 
intent.

> *This*
> injures developers efficiency. What could improve developers 
> efficiency
> is to take care of removing *all* idiomatic or cultural words then. 
> For
> example I've been participating to projects using the term 
> "blueprint",
> I didn't understand what that meant. It was once explained to me and
> given that it had no logical reason for being called this way, I now
> forgot. If we follow your reasoning, Such words should be banned for
> exactly the same reasons. Same for colors that probably don't mean
> anything to those born blind.
>
> For example if in my local culture we eat tomatoes at starters and
> apples for dessert, it could be convenient for me to use "tomato" and
> "apple" as list elements to name the pointers leading to the beginning
> and the end of the list, and it might sound obvious to many people, 
> but
> not at all for many others.
>
> Maybe instead of providing an explicit list of a few words it should
> simply say that terms that take their roots in the non-technical world
> and whose meaning can only be understood based on history or local
> culture ought to be avoided, because *that* actually is the real
> root cause of the problem you're trying to address.

I’d definitely agree that it’s a good goal to keep out non-technical 
terms.  Even though we already try, every subsystem has its own set of 
patterns that reflect the most frequent contributors.

-chris

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-07-06 12:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 93+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-04 20:02 [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology Dan Williams
2020-07-04 20:31 ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-04 23:41   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
     [not found]     ` <CAFhKne9MA_G-UsvBFfX-gZRcu9Gb7Xt7UxQ14MTppdU3X1VYdQ@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-05  1:10       ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Kees Cook
2020-07-05  2:44         ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-06 11:15         ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-06 15:53           ` Kees Cook
2020-07-05  2:54       ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-04 20:44 ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-04 23:34   ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05  2:12     ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-05  2:56       ` Dave Airlie
2020-07-05  3:23         ` James Bottomley
2020-07-05  3:26         ` Stephen Rothwell
2020-07-04 21:14 ` Olof Johansson
2020-07-04 21:25 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " James Bottomley
2020-07-04 21:51   ` Joe Perches
2020-07-04 23:39   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-05  0:08     ` Joe Perches
2020-07-05  1:32     ` Kees Cook
2020-07-05 17:50     ` opal hart
2020-07-04 23:42 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Dave Airlie
2020-07-05  0:41 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07  4:30   ` Dan Williams
2020-07-10 16:52     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-05  4:55 ` Willy Tarreau
2020-07-06  3:13   ` Daniel Palmer
2020-07-06 12:45   ` Chris Mason [this message]
2020-07-06 14:06     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Laurent Pinchart
2020-07-06 15:55       ` Chris Mason
2020-07-06 16:06     ` Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07  4:17       ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 15:22   ` Arvind Sankar
2020-07-06 15:40     ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
     [not found] ` <CAFhKne_ZVWVhZX5hNEbeGBfU6BMRN9JKQeTsVYOcMmEH1cd3xg@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-06  7:06   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " NeilBrown
2020-07-06  7:10   ` NeilBrown
2020-07-06  7:22     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06  7:53       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-07-06 10:22         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-06 12:51         ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 12:59           ` Joe Perches
2020-07-06 13:04             ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-06 13:30               ` Joe Perches
2020-07-09 11:11                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2020-07-13  4:25                   ` Vinod Koul
2020-07-13 15:55                     ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 13:23 ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-06 16:29 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Andy Lutomirski
2020-07-07  4:00   ` Dan Williams
2020-07-07  5:56   ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07  6:49     ` Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 13:37       ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 15:24         ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Bird, Tim
2020-07-07 15:33           ` Randy Dunlap
2020-07-07 15:41             ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 15:55               ` Bird, Tim
2020-07-07  6:56     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Harrosh, Boaz
2020-07-07  8:54       ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 13:41         ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-07 14:45           ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Mike Rapoport
2020-07-07 20:56             ` Kees Cook
2020-07-07 21:48         ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Arvind Sankar
2020-07-07 12:13       ` Mark Brown
2020-07-06 18:30 ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Shuah Khan
2020-07-06 23:58   ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-09 10:43     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2020-07-09 16:01       ` Shuah Khan
2020-07-09 16:13         ` [Tech-board-discuss] [Ksummit-discuss] " Mark Brown
2020-07-09 16:32           ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " James Bottomley
2020-07-09 16:35           ` [Tech-board-discuss] [Ksummit-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-10  9:38         ` [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] " Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07  4:04   ` Dan Williams
2020-07-06 19:15 ` Mark Brown
2020-07-07  0:48   ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07 21:26     ` Arvind Sankar
2020-07-07 23:54       ` Tibor Raschko
2020-07-07  4:08   ` Dan Williams
2020-07-07  9:36     ` Mark Brown
2020-07-06 21:31 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-06 22:10   ` [Tech-board-discuss] " Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 22:17     ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-06 22:28       ` Steven Rostedt
2020-07-06 23:03         ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-08  3:42           ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Stephen Hemminger
2020-07-08 10:51             ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-07  6:56 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " SeongJae Park
2020-07-08  7:12   ` Dan Williams
2020-07-08  9:28     ` SeongJae Park
2020-07-07  7:51 ` Christian Brauner
2020-07-08 18:40 ` Daniel Vetter
2020-07-17  8:35 ` Pavel Machek
2020-07-26 15:30 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Laurent Pinchart
2020-07-06  8:48 Michael Shigorin

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