From: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Network Development <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
"the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@kernel.org>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Alan Cox <alan@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed access_ok
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:53:17 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAPcyv4iEun8Xa-Sg+7=B2iVv1Ue7L06BqOggPWC5a6wn3HXj1w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFwU4nxo7yMN9bUmCK_f-yp2f3KQ=ot_epW7yuKwwZ8uCQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Linus Torvalds
>> <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 3:31 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I assume if we put this in uaccess_begin() we also need audit for
>>>> paths that use access_ok but don't do on to call uaccess_begin()? A
>>>> quick glance shows a few places where we are open coding the stac().
>>>> Perhaps land the lfence in stac() directly?
>>>
>>> Yeah, we should put it in uaccess_begin(), and in the actual user
>>> accessor helpers that do stac. Some of them probably should be changed
>>> to use uaccess_begin() instead while at it.
>>>
>>> One question for the CPU people: do we actually care and need to do
>>> this for things that might *write* to something? The speculative write
>>> obviously is killed, but does it perhaps bring in a cacheline even
>>> when killed?
>>
>> As far as I understand a write could trigger a request-for-ownership
>> read for the target cacheline.
>
> Oh, absolutely.
>
> I just wonder at what point that happens.
>
> Honestly, trying to get exclusive access to a cacheline can be _very_
> expensive (not just for the local thread), so I would actually expect
> that doing so for speculative writes is actually bad for performance.
>
> That's doubly true because - unlike reads - there is no critical
> latency issue, so trying to get the cache access started as early as
> possible simply isn't all that important.
>
> So I suspect that a write won't actually try to allocate the cacheline
> until the write has actually retired.
>
> End result: writes - unlike reads - *probably* will not speculatively
> perturb the cache with speculative write addresses.
>
>> Even though writes can trigger reads, as far as I can see the write
>> needs to be dependent on the first out-of-bounds read
>
> Yeah. A write on its own wouldn't matter, even if it were to perturb
> the cache state, because the address already comes from user space, so
> there's no new information in the cache perturbation for the attacker.
>
> But that all implies that we shouldn't need the lfence for the
> "put_user()" case, only for the get_user() (where the value we read
> would then perhaps be used to do another access).
>
> So we want to add the lfence (or "and") to get_user(), but not
> necessarily put_user().
Yes, perhaps __uaccess_begin_get() and __uaccess_begin_put() to keep
things separate?
> Agreed?
I've been thinking the "and" is only suitable for the array bounds
check, for get_user() we're trying to block speculation past
access_ok() at which point we can only do the lfence?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-01-08 23:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-01-06 1:09 [PATCH 00/18] prevent bounds-check bypass via speculative execution Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:09 ` [PATCH 01/18] asm-generic/barrier: add generic nospec helpers Dan Williams
2018-01-06 2:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-06 5:23 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 17:08 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 02/18] Documentation: document " Dan Williams
2018-01-08 16:29 ` Jonathan Corbet
2018-01-08 17:09 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-08 21:19 ` Jonathan Corbet
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 03/18] arm64: implement nospec_ptr() Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 04/18] arm: " Dan Williams
2018-01-10 2:04 ` Laura Abbott
2018-01-10 7:40 ` Hanjun Guo
2018-01-10 17:24 ` Laura Abbott
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 05/18] x86: implement nospec_barrier() Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed access_ok Dan Williams
2018-01-06 2:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-06 3:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-06 23:31 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-07 1:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-08 21:09 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-08 23:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-08 23:53 ` Dan Williams [this message]
2018-01-06 5:47 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 12:32 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-06 17:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-06 18:13 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-06 18:29 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 18:39 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-06 18:54 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 19:25 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-06 19:36 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 19:41 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08 10:02 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2018-01-06 18:38 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-06 18:51 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-06 19:55 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-06 20:09 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-06 20:22 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-06 21:17 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-06 21:21 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-06 23:05 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-07 3:38 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-07 6:33 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 19:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-07 20:12 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 20:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-07 20:56 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08 2:23 ` David Miller
2018-01-08 7:38 ` Greg KH
2018-01-07 22:15 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 20:15 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-08 2:24 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-08 9:51 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-08 18:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2018-01-08 12:00 ` David Laight
2018-01-08 12:12 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-08 12:33 ` David Laight
2018-01-07 10:08 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08 2:09 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-07 13:59 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-08 2:57 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-08 9:57 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-06 20:42 ` Willy Tarreau
2018-01-07 1:36 ` David Miller
2018-01-07 17:19 ` James Bottomley
2018-01-07 18:31 ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-01-08 2:04 ` David Miller
2018-01-07 19:24 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-09 21:41 ` Josh Poimboeuf
2018-01-09 21:47 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-09 21:49 ` Josh Poimboeuf
2018-01-09 21:59 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-09 22:23 ` Josh Poimboeuf
2018-01-09 22:35 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 07/18] [media] uvcvideo: prevent bounds-check bypass via speculative execution Dan Williams
2018-01-06 9:09 ` Greg KH
2018-01-06 9:40 ` Greg KH
2018-01-06 17:41 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-07 9:09 ` Greg KH
2018-01-07 19:37 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-09 8:40 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-01-09 10:04 ` Greg KH
2018-01-09 14:26 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-01-09 14:47 ` Greg KH
2018-01-08 11:23 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-01-09 2:11 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 08/18] carl9170: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 10:01 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-06 14:23 ` Christian Lamparter
2018-01-06 15:06 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-06 16:38 ` Christian Lamparter
2018-01-06 16:34 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 09/18] p54: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 10:01 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 10/18] qla2xxx: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 9:03 ` Greg KH
2018-01-06 9:42 ` Greg KH
2018-01-11 22:15 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-12 7:27 ` Greg KH
2018-01-12 15:25 ` James Bottomley
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 11/18] cw1200: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:10 ` [PATCH 12/18] Thermal/int340x: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:53 ` Srinivas Pandruvada
2018-01-06 1:57 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 17:24 ` Srinivas Pandruvada
2018-01-06 10:03 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-06 1:11 ` [PATCH 13/18] ipv6: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 10:04 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-06 14:48 ` Stephen Hemminger
2018-01-06 18:05 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:11 ` [PATCH 14/18] ipv4: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 9:00 ` Greg KH
2018-01-06 9:01 ` Greg KH
2018-01-06 12:23 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-06 15:14 ` Greg KH
2018-01-06 16:29 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 18:10 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 10:04 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-06 1:11 ` [PATCH 15/18] vfs, fdtable: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 10:05 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-06 1:11 ` [PATCH 16/18] net: mpls: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 10:06 ` Sergei Shtylyov
2018-01-09 3:11 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-09 3:42 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-09 4:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-09 4:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-10 0:48 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-10 1:33 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-10 1:57 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-10 2:22 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-10 3:07 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-10 3:27 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-09 16:17 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-09 18:01 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-10 0:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-10 1:31 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 1:11 ` [PATCH 17/18] udf: " Dan Williams
2018-01-08 10:20 ` Jan Kara
2018-01-06 1:11 ` [PATCH 18/18] userns: " Dan Williams
2018-01-06 2:22 ` [PATCH 00/18] " Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-06 6:30 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-08 10:08 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-08 11:14 ` Laurent Pinchart
2018-01-08 11:43 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-08 11:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-08 18:33 ` Ingo Molnar
2018-01-08 16:20 ` Bart Van Assche
2018-01-06 18:56 ` Florian Fainelli
2018-01-06 18:59 ` Arjan van de Ven
2018-01-06 19:37 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-06 20:07 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-08 4:49 ` Bart Van Assche
2018-01-08 13:33 ` Arjan van de Ven
2018-01-09 19:34 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-09 19:44 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-09 20:55 ` Josh Poimboeuf
2018-01-11 9:54 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-11 15:58 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-11 16:34 ` Daniel Borkmann
2018-01-13 11:33 ` QingFeng Hao
2018-01-09 0:12 [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed access_ok Linus Torvalds
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