linux-kernel.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Miklos Szeredi <miklos@szeredi.hu>
To: pavel@ucw.cz
Cc: akpm@osdl.org, torvalds@osdl.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [Request for inclusion] Filesystem in Userspace
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:55 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1CVmN5-0007qq-00@dorka.pomaz.szeredi.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20041118144634.GA7922@openzaurus.ucw.cz> (message from Pavel Machek on Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:46:34 +0100)


> Ok, this one works, I agree... But it will be way slower than coda's
> file-backed approach, right?

No.  In both cases there will be two memory copies:

  - from userspace fs to pagecache
  - from pagecache to read buffer

And vica versa for write.  FUSE will have some overhead of context
switches, but in the optimal case (sequential read), the readahead
code will bundle read requests, and with a 128MByte read, the cost of
a context switch is probably infinitesimal.

> > In the second case there is no deadlock, because the memory subsystem
> > doesn't wait for data to be written.  If the filesystem refuses to
> > write back data in a timely manner, memory will get full and OOM
> > killer will go to work.  Deadlock simply cannot happen.
> 
> Hmmm, so if userspace part is swapped out and data is dirtied
> "too quickly", OOM is practically guaranteed? That is not nice.

Yeah.  I imagined, that the kernel won't assign all it's free pages to
file mappings, but people on the list enlightened me to the contrary.

There seem to be two kinds of solutions:

  1) make the userspace part aware of the memory allocation problems

  2) limit the number of pages that can be dirtied


I don't really like 1) because that really kills the point of
implementing the filesystem in userspace.

So I would go along the lines of 2).  However there is no way to know
when pages are dirtied (ther is no fault), so accounting the dirty
pages exactly is not possible.  However accounting the _writable_
pages should be possible with no overhead, since there is a fault when
the page of a mapping is first touched.

Limiting these pages for FUSE, would mean that the user could do
writable mmap, but with the performance penaly of having a limited
number of pages present in memory.  If the userspace FS refuses to
write back data, the filesystem user will be blocked until the
writeback is completed.  No deadlock (hopefully).

Miklos

  reply	other threads:[~2004-11-21  7:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-11-15 21:15 [PATCH] [Request for inclusion] Filesystem in Userspace Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-15 21:43 ` Greg KH
2004-11-15 22:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-16  9:08   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16  9:18     ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-16  9:40       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16  9:46         ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-16  9:52           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 10:17             ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-16 10:25               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 10:13     ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-16 10:20       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 10:35         ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-16 10:42           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 12:19             ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-16 11:01           ` Simon Braunschmidt
2004-11-16 11:20             ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-16 15:18               ` Ralph Corderoy
2004-11-16 12:31             ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-16 11:02         ` Jan Kratochvil
2004-11-16 14:01           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 16:33             ` Greg KH
2004-11-16 16:45               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 17:03                 ` Greg KH
2004-11-16 17:50                   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 17:58                     ` Greg KH
2004-11-16 19:09                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 19:16                         ` Greg KH
2004-11-16 19:30                           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 19:38                             ` Greg KH
2004-11-16 19:24                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-16 19:32                           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-16 19:42                             ` Anton Altaparmakov
2004-11-16 19:48                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-16 20:12                               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-17 15:42               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-17 16:57                 ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-17 17:10                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-17 17:33                     ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-17 17:38                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-17 17:58                         ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-17 18:09                           ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-17 19:58                             ` Mike Waychison
2004-11-17 18:53                           ` [PATCH] " Al Viro
2004-11-17 17:56                   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-17 18:11                     ` Greg KH
2004-11-17 18:17                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-17 18:20                     ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-17 17:52                 ` Greg KH
2004-11-17 15:36             ` Alan Cox
2004-11-17 21:37               ` Bryan Henderson
2004-11-17 19:00 ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-17 19:45   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-17 20:44     ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-18  8:17       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 14:46         ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-21  7:42           ` Miklos Szeredi [this message]
2004-11-21  7:50             ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-21  9:50             ` Jan Hudec
2004-11-21 10:31               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-21 10:39                 ` Jan Hudec
2004-11-21 11:29                   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-21 11:53                     ` Anton Altaparmakov
2004-11-21 12:01                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-21 18:13             ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-22 16:12               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 17:00         ` Bryan Henderson
2004-11-18 17:14           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 18:49             ` Bryan Henderson
2004-11-18 19:12               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-19  7:01               ` Jan Engelhardt
2004-11-20 12:00             ` Jan Hudec
2004-11-18 17:12         ` Bryan Henderson
2004-11-18 17:28           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 18:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-18 17:29               ` Alan Cox
2004-11-18 18:55                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-18 19:28                   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-19  9:46                     ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-18 20:57                   ` Andrew Morton
2004-11-24  6:20                     ` Daniel Phillips
2004-11-24 12:15                 ` Avi Kivity
2004-11-24 13:05                   ` Miklos Szeredi
     [not found]                     ` <200411242001.59504.oliver@neukum.org>
2004-11-24 19:20                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-25  6:26                     ` Jan Hudec
2004-11-25  7:29                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-25  7:47                         ` Jan Hudec
2004-11-25  9:15                           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-25  9:54                           ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-30 18:44                     ` Avi Kivity
2004-11-30 19:16                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-30 19:55                         ` Avi Kivity
2004-11-30 21:13                           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-30 21:37                             ` Avi Kivity
2004-11-30 21:58                               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-30 22:57                                 ` Avi Kivity
2004-11-30 23:19                                   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-12-15 17:55                                     ` Avi Kivity
2004-12-15 21:49                                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-12-03 22:07                               ` Daniel Phillips
2004-12-15 17:45                                 ` Avi Kivity
2004-12-01  7:16                             ` Jan Hudec
2004-12-01 13:35                               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-30 21:54                       ` Pavel Machek
2004-11-18 18:21               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 18:31                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-18 18:56                   ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 19:16                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-18 19:33                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 19:43                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-18 20:05                           ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 20:13                       ` Nikita Danilov
2004-11-18 21:06                     ` Andrew Morton
2004-11-18 21:33                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-19 11:27                       ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-27 17:07                         ` Rik van Riel
2004-11-27 17:13                           ` Pavel Machek
2004-12-03 22:07                           ` Daniel Phillips
2004-11-18 20:16                   ` Elladan
2004-11-18 18:28               ` Jamie Lokier
2004-11-18 18:47                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-18 19:12             ` Bryan Henderson
2004-11-18 19:51               ` Miklos Szeredi
2004-11-18 22:00                 ` Jan Hudec

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=E1CVmN5-0007qq-00@dorka.pomaz.szeredi.hu \
    --to=miklos@szeredi.hu \
    --cc=akpm@osdl.org \
    --cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=pavel@ucw.cz \
    --cc=torvalds@osdl.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).