From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com> To: Tim Hockin <thockin@hockin.org> Cc: autofs <autofs@linux.kernel.org>, linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: [autofs] [RFC] Towards a Modern Autofs Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:20:57 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <3FFB34C9.5010305@zytor.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20040106221502.GA7398@hockin.org> Tim Hockin wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 02:06:34PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote: > >>>Can you maybe share some details? I think this deign moves MORE state to >>>userspace (expiry aside). The "state" in kernel is really mostly sent back >>>to userspace. No more passing pipes into the kernel (state) or tracking the >>>pgid of the daemon (state). >> >>If you want to fire up a new daemon, all that state that was supposed to >>be kept in userspace has to be reconstructed. That means the kernel has >>to have all that information; this would include stuff like what kind of >>umount policy you want for each key entry (the current daemon doesn't do >>that because it doesn't have the proper state.) > > I'm not really sure what you're saying., here. I'm sorry. Not trying to be > thick, just not understanding. > > What umount policy? What state is supposed to be kept in userspace that isn't? > The current autofs daemon, for example, does not handle different procedures on umount. This is particularly important when you have mount trees. > >>>The daemon as it stands does NOT handle namespaces, does NOT handle expiry >>>well, and is a pretty sad copy of an old design. >> >>First of all, I'll be blunt: namespaces currently provide zero benefit >>in Linux, and virtually noone uses them. I have discussed this with >>Linus in the past, and neither one of us see namespaces as being worth > > Let's get rid of them, then. Make life that much easier. > That's what the Linux community is doing, de facto. The Linux userspace simply is not set up to handle namespaces, and the autofs daemon is no exception. Consider such a simple thing as /etc/mtab - /proc/mounts which is necessary for most of the mount(8) functionality to work. It doesn't support namespaces and really cannot be made to. namespace support in Linux is at the best a far-off future goal. It is one thing to put in infrastructure, especially since it has some other nice benefits; it's another thing to revamp all of userspace to use it; it's nowhere close and autofs is no exception. -hpa
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com> To: Tim Hockin <thockin@hockin.org> Cc: autofs <autofs@linux.kernel.org>, linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org> Subject: Re: [RFC] Towards a Modern Autofs Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:20:57 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <3FFB34C9.5010305@zytor.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20040106221502.GA7398@hockin.org> Tim Hockin wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 02:06:34PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote: > >>>Can you maybe share some details? I think this deign moves MORE state to >>>userspace (expiry aside). The "state" in kernel is really mostly sent back >>>to userspace. No more passing pipes into the kernel (state) or tracking the >>>pgid of the daemon (state). >> >>If you want to fire up a new daemon, all that state that was supposed to >>be kept in userspace has to be reconstructed. That means the kernel has >>to have all that information; this would include stuff like what kind of >>umount policy you want for each key entry (the current daemon doesn't do >>that because it doesn't have the proper state.) > > I'm not really sure what you're saying., here. I'm sorry. Not trying to be > thick, just not understanding. > > What umount policy? What state is supposed to be kept in userspace that isn't? > The current autofs daemon, for example, does not handle different procedures on umount. This is particularly important when you have mount trees. > >>>The daemon as it stands does NOT handle namespaces, does NOT handle expiry >>>well, and is a pretty sad copy of an old design. >> >>First of all, I'll be blunt: namespaces currently provide zero benefit >>in Linux, and virtually noone uses them. I have discussed this with >>Linus in the past, and neither one of us see namespaces as being worth > > Let's get rid of them, then. Make life that much easier. > That's what the Linux community is doing, de facto. The Linux userspace simply is not set up to handle namespaces, and the autofs daemon is no exception. Consider such a simple thing as /etc/mtab - /proc/mounts which is necessary for most of the mount(8) functionality to work. It doesn't support namespaces and really cannot be made to. namespace support in Linux is at the best a far-off future goal. It is one thing to put in infrastructure, especially since it has some other nice benefits; it's another thing to revamp all of userspace to use it; it's nowhere close and autofs is no exception. -hpa
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-01-06 22:21 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 115+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2004-01-06 19:55 [RFC] Towards a Modern Autofs Mike Waychison 2004-01-06 19:55 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-06 21:01 ` [autofs] " H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-06 21:01 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-06 21:44 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-06 21:44 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-06 21:50 ` [autofs] " Tim Hockin 2004-01-06 21:50 ` Tim Hockin 2004-01-06 22:06 ` [autofs] " H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-06 22:06 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-06 22:17 ` [autofs] " Tim Hockin [not found] ` <20040106221502.GA7398@hockin.org> 2004-01-06 22:20 ` H. Peter Anvin [this message] 2004-01-06 22:20 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-07 16:19 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-07 16:19 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-07 17:55 ` [autofs] " H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-07 21:13 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-06 22:28 ` name spaces good (was: [autofs] [RFC] Towards a Modern Autofs) Dax Kelson 2004-01-06 22:48 ` name spaces good H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-06 22:48 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-07 21:14 ` [autofs] [RFC] Towards a Modern Autofs Jim Carter 2004-01-07 21:14 ` Jim Carter 2004-01-07 22:55 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-07 22:55 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-08 12:00 ` [autofs] " Ian Kent 2004-01-08 12:00 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 15:39 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 18:20 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-09 18:20 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-09 20:06 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 20:06 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-10 5:43 ` [autofs] " Ian Kent 2004-01-12 13:07 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-12 16:01 ` raven 2004-01-12 16:26 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-12 22:50 ` Tim Hockin 2004-01-12 23:28 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-13 1:30 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-13 1:30 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-12 16:28 ` [autofs] " raven 2004-01-12 16:58 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-13 1:54 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-13 1:54 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-13 19:01 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-13 19:01 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-14 15:58 ` [autofs] " raven 2004-01-14 19:32 ` running out of mount points Greg Bradner 2004-01-19 15:48 ` Greg Bradner 2004-01-19 17:11 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-19 19:07 ` Greg Bradner 2004-01-20 19:15 ` Jim Carter 2004-01-13 18:46 ` [autofs] [RFC] Towards a Modern Autofs Mike Waychison 2004-01-13 18:46 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 20:51 ` [autofs] " Jim Carter 2004-01-09 20:51 ` Jim Carter 2004-01-10 5:56 ` [autofs] " Ian Kent 2004-01-08 17:34 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-08 19:41 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-08 23:42 ` Michael Clark 2004-01-09 20:28 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 20:28 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 20:54 ` [autofs] " H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-09 20:54 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-09 21:43 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 21:43 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 18:32 ` [autofs] " Ian Kent 2004-01-09 18:32 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-09 20:52 ` [autofs] " Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 20:52 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-10 6:05 ` [autofs] " Ian Kent 2004-01-08 12:29 ` Olivier Galibert 2004-01-08 13:20 ` Robin Rosenberg 2004-01-08 16:23 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-08 12:35 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 13:08 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 18:20 ` Jim Carter 2004-01-08 21:01 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-08 0:48 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 0:48 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-06 22:28 [autofs] " Ogden, Aaron A. 2004-01-06 22:41 ` Mike Fedyk 2004-01-06 22:47 ` Tim Hockin 2004-01-06 22:53 ` Paul Raines 2004-01-07 23:14 ` Jim Carter 2004-01-07 23:32 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-08 12:52 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 12:52 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 18:31 ` viro 2004-01-09 18:43 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-09 19:41 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 19:57 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-09 21:31 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 21:36 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-06 23:34 Ogden, Aaron A. 2004-01-06 23:47 ` Tim Hockin [not found] <1b5GC-29h-1@gated-at.bofh.it> [not found] ` <1b6CO-3v0-15@gated-at.bofh.it> 2004-01-07 4:21 ` Andi Kleen 2004-01-07 17:50 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-07 21:04 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-07 21:11 ` Mike Fedyk 2004-01-07 23:40 ` Jesper Juhl 2004-01-07 21:24 ` Jeff Garzik 2004-01-07 23:47 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-07 23:56 ` Jeff Garzik 2004-01-12 16:57 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-13 7:39 ` Ian Kent 2004-01-08 19:32 trond.myklebust 2004-01-08 19:41 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-08 20:08 ` trond.myklebust 2004-01-08 21:13 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-08 22:20 ` J. Bruce Fields 2004-01-08 22:24 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-09 20:37 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 21:02 ` H. Peter Anvin 2004-01-09 21:52 ` Mike Waychison 2004-01-09 20:16 ` Mike Waychison
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