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From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Andrew Lutomirski <luto@mit.edu>,
	mingo@redhat.com, Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: SYSCALL, ptrace and syscall restart breakages (Re: [RFC] weird crap with vdso on uml/i386)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:48:31 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4E51B56F.3080301@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFz1jCZGcQ-c6uGN=k8nKDuGoz5g8e+pxpYAg4X_p7=5Mw@mail.gmail.com>

On 08/21/2011 06:41 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> If people are using syscall directly, we're pretty much stuck. No
> amount of "that's hopelessly wrong" will ever matter. We don't break
> existing binaries.
> 
> That said, I'd *hope* that everybody uses the vdso32, simply because
> user programs are not supposed to know which CPU they are running on
> and if that CPU even *supports* the syscall instruction. In which case
> it may be possible that we can play games with the vdso thing. But
> that really would be conditional on "nobody ever reports a failure".

I think we found that out with the vsyscall emulation issue last cycle.
 It works, so it will have been used, somewhere...

> But if that's possible, maybe we can increment the RIP by 2 for
> 'syscall', and slip an "'int 0x80" after the syscall instruction in
> the vdso there? Resulting in the same pseudo-solution I suggested for
> sysenter...

I think we have the above problem.

The problem here is that the syscall state is actually more complex than
we retain: the entire state is given by (entry point, register state);
with that amount of state we have all the information needed to *either*
extract the syscall arguments *or* the register contents.  Without
those, we can only represent one of the two possible metalevels (right
now we represent the higher-level metalevel, the argument vector), but
we need both for different usages.

	-hpa

-- 
H. Peter Anvin, Intel Open Source Technology Center
I work for Intel.  I don't speak on their behalf.


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Andrew Lutomirski <luto@mit.edu>,
	user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mingo@redhat.com,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [uml-devel] SYSCALL, ptrace and syscall restart breakages (Re: [RFC] weird crap with vdso on uml/i386)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:48:31 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4E51B56F.3080301@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFz1jCZGcQ-c6uGN=k8nKDuGoz5g8e+pxpYAg4X_p7=5Mw@mail.gmail.com>

On 08/21/2011 06:41 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> If people are using syscall directly, we're pretty much stuck. No
> amount of "that's hopelessly wrong" will ever matter. We don't break
> existing binaries.
> 
> That said, I'd *hope* that everybody uses the vdso32, simply because
> user programs are not supposed to know which CPU they are running on
> and if that CPU even *supports* the syscall instruction. In which case
> it may be possible that we can play games with the vdso thing. But
> that really would be conditional on "nobody ever reports a failure".

I think we found that out with the vsyscall emulation issue last cycle.
 It works, so it will have been used, somewhere...

> But if that's possible, maybe we can increment the RIP by 2 for
> 'syscall', and slip an "'int 0x80" after the syscall instruction in
> the vdso there? Resulting in the same pseudo-solution I suggested for
> sysenter...

I think we have the above problem.

The problem here is that the syscall state is actually more complex than
we retain: the entire state is given by (entry point, register state);
with that amount of state we have all the information needed to *either*
extract the syscall arguments *or* the register contents.  Without
those, we can only represent one of the two possible metalevels (right
now we represent the higher-level metalevel, the argument vector), but
we need both for different usages.

	-hpa

-- 
H. Peter Anvin, Intel Open Source Technology Center
I work for Intel.  I don't speak on their behalf.


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  reply	other threads:[~2011-08-22  1:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-08-18 18:58 Subject: [PATCH 00/91] pending uml patches Al Viro
2011-08-18 18:58 ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-18 19:12 ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-18 19:12   ` [uml-devel] " Richard Weinberger
2011-08-18 19:19   ` Al Viro
2011-08-18 19:19     ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-19  4:31     ` Al Viro
2011-08-19  8:51       ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-19  8:51         ` [uml-devel] " Richard Weinberger
2011-08-20  1:18         ` [RFC] weird crap with vdso on uml/i386 Al Viro
2011-08-20 15:22           ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-20 20:14             ` Al Viro
2011-08-20 20:14               ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-20 20:55               ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-20 21:26                 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-20 21:26                   ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-20 21:38                   ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-20 21:38                     ` [uml-devel] " Richard Weinberger
2011-08-20 21:40                   ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-20 21:40                     ` [uml-devel] " Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-21  6:34                     ` Al Viro
2011-08-21  6:34                       ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-21  8:42                       ` SYSCALL, ptrace and syscall restart breakages (Re: [RFC] weird crap with vdso on uml/i386) Al Viro
2011-08-21  8:42                         ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-21 11:24                         ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-21 11:24                           ` [uml-devel] " Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-21 13:37                           ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-21 13:37                             ` [uml-devel] " Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-21 14:51                             ` Al Viro
2011-08-21 14:51                               ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-21 14:43                           ` Al Viro
2011-08-21 16:41                             ` Al Viro
2011-08-21 16:41                               ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-22  0:44                               ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22  0:44                                 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22  1:09                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-22  1:19                                   ` Al Viro
2011-08-22  1:19                                     ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-22  1:19                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  1:19                                     ` [uml-devel] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22 21:25                                   ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-32, vdso: On system call restart after SYSENTER, use int $0x80 tip-bot for H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 23:40                                   ` tip-bot for H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  1:16                                 ` SYSCALL, ptrace and syscall restart breakages (Re: [RFC] weird crap with vdso on uml/i386) Al Viro
2011-08-22  1:16                                   ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-22  1:41                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-22  1:41                                     ` [uml-devel] " Linus Torvalds
2011-08-22  1:48                                     ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2011-08-22  1:48                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  2:01                                       ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22  2:01                                         ` [uml-devel] " Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22  2:07                                         ` Al Viro
2011-08-22  2:07                                           ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-22  2:26                                           ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22  2:26                                             ` [uml-devel] " Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22  2:34                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  2:34                                               ` [uml-devel] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  4:05                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  4:05                                               ` [uml-devel] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  9:53                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2011-08-22 13:34                                                 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22 13:34                                                   ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22 14:40                                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2011-08-22 14:40                                                     ` Borislav Petkov
2011-08-22 15:13                                                     ` Al Viro
2011-08-22 15:13                                                       ` Al Viro
2011-08-22 20:05                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-22 20:05                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-22 20:11                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22 20:11                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22 21:52                                                           ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22 21:52                                                             ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-22 22:04                                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22 22:04                                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22 23:27                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-22 23:46                                                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22 23:46                                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23  0:03                                                                 ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  0:03                                                                   ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  0:07                                                                   ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  0:07                                                                     ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  0:07                                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23  0:07                                                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23  0:22                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23  0:22                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23  1:01                                                                       ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  1:13                                                                         ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  1:13                                                                           ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  1:59                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23  1:59                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23  2:59                                                                             ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  2:59                                                                               ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  2:17                                                                           ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  6:15                                                                             ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 14:26                                                                               ` Borislav Petkov
2011-08-23 16:30                                                                                 ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 16:30                                                                                   ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 16:03                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 16:03                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 16:11                                                                                 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-23 16:11                                                                                   ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-23 16:20                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 16:20                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 17:33                                                                                     ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 17:33                                                                                       ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 18:04                                                                                       ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 18:04                                                                                         ` Al Viro
2011-08-24 12:44                                                                                       ` [PATCH] x86, asm: Document some of the syscall asm glue Borislav Petkov
2011-08-23 16:22                                                                                   ` [uml-devel] SYSCALL, ptrace and syscall restart breakages (Re: [RFC] weird crap with vdso on uml/i386) Borislav Petkov
2011-08-23 16:29                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 16:53                                                                                       ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 16:53                                                                                         ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 16:58                                                                                         ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-23 16:58                                                                                           ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-23 17:07                                                                                           ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 17:07                                                                                             ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 17:29                                                                                             ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-23 17:29                                                                                               ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-25  0:05                                                                                             ` Richard Weinberger
2011-08-23 19:15                                                                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 19:15                                                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 20:56                                                                                       ` Borislav Petkov
2011-08-23 21:06                                                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 21:10                                                                                           ` Borislav Petkov
2011-08-23 23:04                                                                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 23:04                                                                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-24 21:10                                                                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-24 21:10                                                                                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 16:48                                                                                 ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 16:48                                                                                   ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 17:33                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 17:33                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 21:08                                                                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 21:08                                                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 21:20                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 21:20                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 23:04                                                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 23:04                                                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 19:18                                                                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 19:18                                                                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 19:24                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 19:24                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 19:26                                                                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 19:26                                                                                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23 19:41                                                                                       ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 19:41                                                                                         ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 19:43                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 19:43                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2011-08-23 21:17                                                                                           ` Al Viro
2011-08-23 21:17                                                                                             ` Al Viro
2011-08-23  1:16                                                                         ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-23  1:18                                                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23  1:18                                                                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  4:07                                     ` Al Viro
2011-08-22  4:11                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  4:11                                         ` [uml-devel] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  4:26                                         ` Al Viro
2011-08-22  4:26                                           ` [uml-devel] " Al Viro
2011-08-22  5:03                                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-22  5:03                                             ` [uml-devel] " H. Peter Anvin
2011-08-23  5:10                                             ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-08-23  5:10                                               ` [uml-devel] " Andrew Lutomirski

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