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From: Alexander Graf <graf@amazon.com>
To: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Paraschiv, Andra-Irina" <andraprs@amazon.com>,
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Cc: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@amazon.com>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@amazon.com>,
	Colm MacCarthaigh <colmmacc@amazon.com>,
	Bjoern Doebel <doebel@amazon.de>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw@amazon.co.uk>,
	Frank van der Linden <fllinden@amazon.com>,
	Martin Pohlack <mpohlack@amazon.de>, Matt Wilson <msw@amazon.com>,
	Balbir Singh <sblbir@amazon.com>,
	Stewart Smith <trawets@amazon.com>,
	Uwe Dannowski <uwed@amazon.de>, <kvm@vger.kernel.org>,
	<ne-devel-upstream@amazon.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 00/15] Add support for Nitro Enclaves
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:19:01 +0200
Message-ID: <131ae410-58a5-63c9-14b5-0fe39ab69278@amazon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bed6e250-9de5-d719-623b-b72db78ebcb9@redhat.com>



On 30.04.20 13:58, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> 
> On 30/04/20 13:47, Alexander Graf wrote:
>>>
>>> So the issue would be that a firmware image provided by the parent could
>>> be tampered with by something malicious running in the parent enclave?
>>
>> You have to have a root of trust somewhere. That root then checks and
>> attests everything it runs. What exactly would you attest for with a
>> flat address space model?
>>
>> So the issue is that the enclave code can not trust its own integrity if
>> it doesn't have anything at a higher level attesting it. The way this is
>> usually solved on bare metal systems is that you trust your CPU which
>> then checks the firmware integrity (Boot Guard). Where would you put
>> that check in a VM model?
> 
> In the enclave device driver, I would just limit the attestation to the
> firmware image
> 
> So yeah it wouldn't be a mode where ne_load_image is not invoked and
> the enclave starts in real mode at 0xffffff0.  You would still need
> "load image" functionality.
> 
>> How close would it be to a normal VM then? And
>> if it's not, what's the point of sticking to such terrible legacy boot
>> paths?
> 
> The point is that there's already two plausible loaders for the kernel
> (bzImage and ELF), so I'd like to decouple the loader and the image.

The loader is implemented by the enclave device. If it wishes to support 
bzImage and ELF it does that. Today, it only does bzImage though IIRC :).

So yes, they are decoupled? Are you saying you would like to build your 
own code in any way you like? Well, that means we either need to add 
support for another loader in the enclave device or your workloads just 
fakes a bzImage header and gets loaded regardless :).


Alex



Amazon Development Center Germany GmbH
Krausenstr. 38
10117 Berlin
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Christian Schlaeger, Jonathan Weiss
Eingetragen am Amtsgericht Charlottenburg unter HRB 149173 B
Sitz: Berlin
Ust-ID: DE 289 237 879



  reply index

Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-04-21 18:41 Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 01/15] nitro_enclaves: Add ioctl interface definition Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:47   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-04-21 21:45     ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-22 15:49       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 02/15] nitro_enclaves: Define the PCI device interface Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 21:22   ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-23 13:37     ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-24 15:10       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 03/15] nitro_enclaves: Define enclave info for internal bookkeeping Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 04/15] nitro_enclaves: Init PCI device driver Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-25 14:25   ` Liran Alon
2020-04-29 16:31     ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 05/15] nitro_enclaves: Handle PCI device command requests Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-25 14:52   ` Liran Alon
2020-04-29 17:00     ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 06/15] nitro_enclaves: Handle out-of-band PCI device events Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 07/15] nitro_enclaves: Init misc device providing the ioctl interface Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 08/15] nitro_enclaves: Add logic for enclave vm creation Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 09/15] nitro_enclaves: Add logic for enclave vcpu creation Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 10/15] nitro_enclaves: Add logic for enclave memory region set Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 11/15] nitro_enclaves: Add logic for enclave start Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 12/15] nitro_enclaves: Add logic for enclave termination Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 13/15] nitro_enclaves: Add Kconfig for the Nitro Enclaves driver Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 18:50   ` Randy Dunlap
2020-04-22 14:35     ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 14/15] nitro_enclaves: Add Makefile " Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-23  8:12   ` kbuild test robot
2020-04-24 17:00     ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-23  8:43   ` kbuild test robot
2020-04-24 15:27     ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-21 18:41 ` [PATCH v1 15/15] MAINTAINERS: Add entry " Andra Paraschiv
2020-04-21 21:46 ` [PATCH v1 00/15] Add support for Nitro Enclaves Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-23 13:19   ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-23 13:42     ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-23 17:42       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-23 17:51         ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-23 20:56           ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-23 21:18             ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-24 12:56               ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-24 16:27                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-24 19:11                   ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-25 16:05                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-27  9:15                       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-27  9:22                       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-27  9:46                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-27 10:00                           ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-28 15:07                       ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-29 13:20                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-30 13:59                           ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-30 10:34                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-30 11:21                           ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-30 11:38                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-30 11:47                               ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-30 11:58                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-04-30 12:19                                   ` Alexander Graf [this message]
2020-05-07 17:44       ` Pavel Machek
2020-05-08  7:00         ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-05-09 19:21           ` Pavel Machek
2020-05-10 11:02             ` Herrenschmidt, Benjamin
2020-05-11 10:49               ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-05-11 13:49               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2020-04-24  3:04     ` Longpeng (Mike, Cloud Infrastructure Service Product Dept.)
2020-04-24  8:19       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-24  9:54         ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-26  1:55           ` Longpeng (Mike, Cloud Infrastructure Service Product Dept.)
2020-04-27 18:39             ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-24  9:59     ` Tian, Kevin
2020-04-24 13:59       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-26  8:16         ` Tian, Kevin
2020-04-27 19:05           ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
     [not found]         ` <CAKXe6SLonLQLAOY9Q_2AzTeg4uJxiknsAWnJpTF0hMcXEG5Tew@mail.gmail.com>
2020-05-11 12:05           ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-25 15:25     ` Liran Alon
2020-04-27  7:56       ` Paraschiv, Andra-Irina
2020-04-27 11:44         ` Liran Alon
2020-04-28 15:25           ` Alexander Graf
2020-04-28 16:01             ` Liran Alon

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