From: Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>
To: Joel Becker <Joel.Becker@oracle.com>
Cc: gombasg@sztaki.hu, tytso@mit.edu, torvalds@osdl.org,
kay.sievers@suse.de, penberg@cs.helsinki.fi, gregkh@suse.de,
bunk@stusta.de, rml@novell.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
johnstul@us.ibm.com
Subject: Re: 2.6.16-rc4: known regressions
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:54:10 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060222115410.1394ff82.akpm@osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060222185923.GL16648@ca-server1.us.oracle.com>
Joel Becker <Joel.Becker@oracle.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 06:33:54PM +0100, Gabor Gombas wrote:
> > I don't think isnmod is broken. It's job is to load a chunk of code into
> > the kernel, and it's doing just that.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > But if your kernel has CONFIG_HOTPLUG enabled, then _you_ have asked for
> > this exact behavior, therefore you should better fix userspace to cope
> > with it. Your initrd should use the notification mechanisms provided by
> > the kernel to wait for the would-be root device really becoming
> > available; if it's not doing that, then IMHO you should not use a
> > CONFIG_HOTPLUG enabled kernel.
>
> The issue isn't so much "insmod is right" vs "insmod is wrong".
> It's that the behavior changed in a surprising fashion. Red Hat's
> kernel for RHEL4 (in our example) has CONFIG_HOTPLUG=y, yet it Just
> Works. A more recent kernel (.15 and .16 at least) with
> CONFIG_HOTPLUG=y doesn't work. Same disk drivers. Same initramfs
> script.
> We're discussing this very "kernel change broke userspace
> expectations" issue. You don't need to convince me that
>
> 1. Insmod loads the driver
> 2. Userspace initramfs sleeps waiting for hotplug
> 3. Hotplug completes
> 4. Userspace initramfs continues, using the now plugged devices.
Yes, I tend to think that insmod should just block until all devices are
ready to be used. insmod doesn't just "insert a module". It runs that
module's init function.
The very common case is that userspace wants to use those devices
immediately upon return from insmod, and the handling of these
not-yet-ready devices from userspace is very hard - generally people just
stick lame sleeps in there to get around it.
If, for some strange and rare reason, people _really_ want the
return-when-its-not-ready-yet behaviour, they can do `insmod foo &', or we
give insmod a fork-then-exit option.
But right now the default (and unalterable) behaviour is the oddball,
rarely-desired and hard-to-handle one.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-02-22 19:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-02-17 22:45 Linux 2.6.16-rc4 Linus Torvalds
2006-02-17 23:14 ` 2.6.16-rc4: known regressions Adrian Bunk
2006-02-19 11:06 ` Pekka Enberg
2006-02-19 14:54 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-02-19 17:50 ` Pekka Enberg
2006-02-19 21:14 ` Pekka Enberg
2006-02-20 1:02 ` Greg KH
2006-02-20 7:08 ` Pekka J Enberg
2006-02-21 22:51 ` Pekka Enberg
2006-02-21 22:57 ` Kay Sievers
2006-02-21 23:33 ` Andrew Morton
2006-02-22 0:04 ` Kay Sievers
2006-02-22 0:15 ` Mark Lord
2006-02-22 0:21 ` Andrew Morton
2006-02-22 0:34 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 0:46 ` Con Kolivas
2006-02-22 1:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 11:21 ` Theodore Ts'o
2006-02-22 14:25 ` uswsusp & initrd -- was " Pavel Machek
2006-02-22 15:48 ` Joel Becker
2006-02-22 16:25 ` Theodore Ts'o
2006-02-22 17:33 ` Gabor Gombas
2006-02-22 17:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 18:37 ` Christian Trefzer
2006-02-22 18:59 ` Joel Becker
2006-02-22 19:18 ` Greg KH
2006-02-22 19:29 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-02-22 19:40 ` Greg KH
2006-02-22 20:45 ` Jens Axboe
2006-02-22 22:51 ` Greg KH
2006-02-23 6:39 ` Jens Axboe
2006-02-23 17:29 ` Martin Bligh
2006-02-23 17:52 ` Greg KH
2006-02-23 18:01 ` Martin Bligh
2006-02-23 18:04 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-02-23 20:26 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2006-02-24 23:42 ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-02-22 19:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 19:54 ` Andrew Morton [this message]
2006-02-22 20:02 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-02-22 20:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 20:44 ` Andrew Morton
2006-02-22 20:26 ` Greg KH
2006-02-23 5:28 ` Jody McIntyre
2006-02-22 20:57 ` Diego Calleja
2006-02-22 21:19 ` Russell King
2006-02-22 21:30 ` Greg KH
2006-02-22 20:47 ` Bryan O'Sullivan
2006-02-22 19:07 ` Greg KH
2006-02-22 17:06 ` Matthias Andree
2006-02-23 12:36 ` Paulo Marques
2006-02-22 10:49 ` Diego Calleja
2006-02-22 7:06 ` Pekka J Enberg
2006-02-22 15:27 ` Kay Sievers
2006-02-22 15:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 16:03 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-02-22 16:11 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-02-22 17:17 ` sysfs regressions (was: 2.6.16-rc4: known regressions) Matthias Andree
2006-02-22 17:47 ` Greg KH
2006-02-22 16:18 ` 2.6.16-rc4: known regressions David Zeuthen
2006-02-22 16:35 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-02-22 16:46 ` David Zeuthen
2006-02-22 16:51 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-02-22 17:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 17:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-02-22 18:04 ` Al Viro
2006-02-23 3:01 ` John Stoffel
2006-02-22 17:51 ` Al Viro
2006-02-22 17:55 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-02-22 18:10 ` Al Viro
2006-02-22 19:25 ` David Zeuthen
2006-02-22 17:10 ` Al Viro
2006-02-22 17:10 ` grundig
2006-02-22 17:14 ` Martin Bligh
2006-02-23 4:17 ` Theodore Ts'o
2006-02-22 18:10 ` Pekka Enberg
2006-02-22 8:28 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-02-17 23:27 ` Linux 2.6.16-rc4 Nigel Cunningham
2006-02-18 8:59 ` Edmondo Tommasina
2006-02-18 9:19 ` Gene Heskett
2006-02-18 10:20 ` Con Kolivas
2006-02-18 11:26 ` Gene Heskett
2006-02-18 16:04 ` Jean Delvare
2006-02-22 22:02 ` Linux 2.6.16-rc4 edac oops Mark Rustad
2006-02-24 11:09 ` Andrew Morton
2006-02-22 2:39 2.6.16-rc4: known regressions Yu, Luming
2006-02-22 3:16 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-02-22 6:55 Yu, Luming
2006-02-22 12:23 ` Adrian Bunk
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