From: Timothy Miller <miller@techsource.com>
To: Gerrit Huizenga <gh@us.ibm.com>
Cc: John Bradford <john@grabjohn.com>,
Chuck Ebbert <76306.1226@compuserve.com>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: kernel support for non-English user messages
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:28:31 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3E9D688F.5040204@techsource.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: E195cDL-00013K-00@w-gerrit2
The Japanese are taught to read and write English as school children.
They also are taught how to write their own language in Romanji, which
is an adaptation of the Roman alphabet. How much you want to bet that
the Japanese use English when they write error messages? While I
understand the spirit of your statement, despite its technical error,
the spirit of my response is that you could replace "Japanese" with any
other language and get the same effect.
Linus Torvalds isn't the first Finn I've encountered who speaks, reads,
and writes English impeccably.
I've also never met a German who didn't speak English.
When we have Asian vendors from various countries come visit where I
work, even the ones who need a translator speak English better than we
speak their language.
The point of this painfully off-topic rant is that messages being
written in English are a disadvantage for no one since they all already
know English. The messages are also simple enough that anyone
intelligent enough to care what a Linux kernel message MEANS is probably
intelligent enough to at least have an English-to-Whatever dictionary on
hand.
I personally have a list of every kernel message I could extract from
the source code of 2.4.20, and I've examined a lot of them. It's a lot
like reading Dr. Seuss. Although some of the words are long, the
vocabulary is incredibly small. A lot of text is abbreviations and
acronyms that you wouldn't translate anyhow!
This isn't an issue of fairness to people who speak other languages.
It's simply unnecessary and costs us far more than we gain. One of the
things I like about the Linux kernel is that people strive to "do the
right thing", and it's improving all the time. Internationalizing
kernel messages, that shouldn't appear anyhow if we did our jobs right,
would NOT be an improvement.
Mind you, I like to try to be open-minded. Based on my own reasoning, I
see this as being unnecessary, but I can be convinced otherwise. You're
just going to have to come up with a much better reason than what has
been offered by yourself and others in this thread.
Gerrit Huizenga wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:40:55 BST, John Bradford wrote:
>
>
>>Well, you don't need error codes to make a comprehensive manual, you
>>can just look up the English error message, and get a detailed
>>explaination of it, in any language.
>>
>>
>
>Can someone hand that man a japanese error message and ask him to
>look it up in a japanese dictionary?
>
>Walk for a moment in the other language's shoes...
>
>Mixing metaphores as time flies....
>
>gerrit
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
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>More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
>
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-04-16 14:03 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 122+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-04-11 13:17 kernel support for non-English user messages Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-11 13:40 ` John Bradford
2003-04-16 1:59 ` Gerrit Huizenga
2003-04-16 14:28 ` Timothy Miller [this message]
2003-04-16 14:37 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-16 16:20 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-16 17:04 ` Bruce Harada
2003-04-16 18:34 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-16 18:37 ` Bruce Harada
2003-04-11 14:37 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-04-11 16:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-12 8:22 ` Kai Henningsen
2003-04-12 11:08 ` John Bradford
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-04-14 21:27 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-12 20:31 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-14 9:07 ` Denis Vlasenko
2003-04-12 16:47 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-12 15:20 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-12 15:34 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-12 17:22 ` Robert P. J. Day
2003-04-13 3:59 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-04-13 6:21 ` John Bradford
2003-04-12 9:52 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-11 23:38 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-11 23:36 Jim Keniston[UNIX]
2003-04-11 22:21 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-11 22:53 ` Martin J. Bligh
2003-04-12 7:55 ` John Bradford
2003-04-12 7:48 ` John Bradford
2003-04-14 11:40 ` Denis Vlasenko
2003-04-14 12:55 ` John Bradford
2003-04-14 17:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-14 18:15 ` John Bradford
2003-04-14 23:04 ` Felipe Alfaro Solana
2003-04-15 13:21 ` Alex Combas
2003-04-15 18:02 ` Eric Altendorf
2003-04-17 13:46 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-17 15:07 ` Randolph Bentson
2003-04-17 18:49 ` Eric Altendorf
2003-04-14 13:18 ` Sean Neakums
2003-04-14 14:23 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-16 5:03 ` Denis Vlasenko
[not found] <A46BBDB345A7D5118EC90002A5072C780BEBA7DD@orsmsx116.jf.inte l.com>
2003-04-11 20:55 ` kernel support for non-english " Ruth Ivimey-Cook
2003-04-11 20:02 Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky
2003-04-11 16:57 kernel support for non-English " Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-11 17:38 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-04-11 18:10 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-04-11 14:52 Paolo Ciarrocchi
[not found] <20030409051006$1ecf@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030409081011$5257@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030409221017$6c98@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030409225009$2558@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030410014009$78fb@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030410200019$3e8f@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <20030410202016$7d48@gated-at.bofh.it>
2003-04-11 11:29 ` kernel support for non-english " Tim Connors
2003-04-11 10:10 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-10 23:23 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-10 22:13 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-10 22:33 ` Stephen Hemminger
2003-04-10 21:20 Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky
2003-04-10 22:06 ` Andreas Dilger
2003-04-11 7:38 ` Ville Herva
2003-04-10 20:54 Chuck Ebbert
2003-04-10 21:08 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2003-04-10 19:21 Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky
2003-04-10 20:41 ` Robert White
2003-04-11 9:21 ` kernel support for non-English " Riley Williams
2003-04-11 20:49 ` Robert White
2003-04-11 22:53 ` Riley Williams
2003-04-15 3:44 ` Robert White
2003-04-15 11:08 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-15 11:08 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-15 14:07 ` Timothy Miller
2003-04-11 21:04 ` Ruth Ivimey-Cook
2003-04-11 21:31 ` Daniel Stekloff
2003-04-10 10:47 kernel support for non-english " Ruth Ivimey-Cook
2003-04-09 23:31 Jim Keniston[UNIX]
2003-04-10 19:01 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-11 9:21 ` kernel support for non-English " Riley Williams
2003-04-11 12:16 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-11 13:39 ` John Bradford
2003-04-11 13:11 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-11 14:48 ` John Bradford
2003-04-09 19:25 kernel support for non-english " Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky
2003-04-09 19:01 Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky
2003-04-09 5:02 Frank Davis
2003-04-09 5:29 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-04-09 5:50 ` Frank Davis
2003-04-09 9:37 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2003-04-09 11:04 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-09 5:53 ` Andreas Dilger
2003-04-09 8:08 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-04-09 9:33 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-04-09 10:24 ` Matti Aarnio
2003-04-09 22:07 ` Werner Almesberger
2003-04-09 22:41 ` Frank Davis
2003-04-09 22:55 ` Ulrich Drepper
2003-04-09 23:53 ` Johannes Ruscheinski
2003-04-10 1:43 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-04-10 18:57 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-10 20:13 ` Trond Myklebust
2003-04-10 19:42 ` Alan Cox
2003-04-11 0:48 ` Christer Weinigel
2003-04-11 15:56 ` Daniel Stekloff
2003-04-10 20:53 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-04-10 23:05 ` Jon Portnoy
2003-04-11 5:39 ` DevilKin
2003-04-11 5:49 ` Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
2003-04-11 6:17 ` DevilKin
2003-04-11 17:51 ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-04-11 11:57 ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-11 17:55 ` David Lang
2003-04-10 20:36 ` John Bradford
2003-04-10 22:20 ` Shaya Potter
2003-04-11 4:19 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-11 4:23 ` Shaya Potter
2003-04-11 8:40 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-04-11 9:09 ` John Bradford
2003-04-11 10:59 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-04-11 11:11 ` John Bradford
2003-04-11 11:40 ` Helge Hafting
2003-04-10 8:19 ` Oliver Neukum
2003-04-09 13:11 ` Giuliano Pochini
2003-04-10 3:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-10 9:05 ` kernel support for non-English " Riley Williams
2003-04-10 17:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2003-04-10 18:32 ` John Bradford
2003-04-12 2:55 ` Chris Wedgwood
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