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From: Stefano Stabellini <sstabellini@kernel.org>
To: Julien Grall <julien.grall@arm.com>
Cc: xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nd@arm.com,
	Stefano Stabellini <sstabellini@kernel.org>,
	Stefano Stabellini <stefanos@xilinx.com>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] [PATCH v2 10/10] xen/arm: add reserved-memory regions to the dom0 memory node
Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 14:26:51 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.21.1905201407410.16404@sstabellini-ThinkPad-T480s> (raw)
Message-ID: <20190520212651.H_2uyX8zXjzofxjrhOYpYK2CB--YtYyDgcpEmTV6_lw@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20f548ea-eb18-8700-9d1e-53462abbff0c@arm.com>

On Sat, 11 May 2019, Julien Grall wrote:
> > > > But I am still not happy with the approach taken for the reserved-memory
> > > > regions in this series. As I pointed out before, they are just normal
> > > > memory
> > > > that was reserved for other purpose (CMA, framebuffer...).
> > > > 
> > > > Treating them as "device" from Xen POV is a clear abuse of the meaning
> > > > and I
> > > > don't believe it is a viable solution long term.
> > > 
> > > If we don't consider "reusable" memory regions as part of the
> > > discussion, the distinction becomes more philosophical than practical:
> > > 
> > > - Xen is not supposed to use them for anything
> > > - only given them to the VM configured for it
> > > 
> > > I don't see much of a difference with MMIO regions, except for the
> > > expected pagetable attributes: i.e. cacheable, not-cacheable. But even
> > > in that case, there could be reasonable use cases for non-cacheable
> > > mappings of reserved-memory regions, even if reserved-memory regions are
> > > "normal" memory.
> > > 
> > > Could you please help me understand why you see them so differently, as
> > > far as to say that "treating them as "device" from Xen POV is a clear
> > > abuse of the meaning"?
> > 
> > Obviously if you take half of the picture, then it makes things easier.
> > However, we are not here to discuss half of the picture but the full one
> > (even if at the end you only implement half of it).
> > 
> > > > Indeed, some of the regions may have a property "reusable" allowing the
> > > > the OS
> > > > to use them until they are claimed by the device driver owning the
> > > > region. I
> > > > don't know how Linux (or any other OS) is using it today, but I don't
> > > > see what
> > > > would prevent it to use them as hypercall buffer. This would obviously
> > > > not
> > > > work because they are not actual RAM from Xen POV.
> > > 
> > > I haven't attempted at handling "reusable" reserved-memory regions
> > > because I don't have a test environment and/or a use-case for them. In
> > > other words, I don't have any "reusable" reserved-memory regions in any
> > > of the boards (Xilinx and not Xilinx) I have access to. I could add a
> > > warning if we find a "reusable" reserved-memory region at boot.
> > 
> > Don't get me wrong, I don't ask for the implementation now, so a warning
> > would be fine here. However, you need at least to show me some ground that
> > re-usable memory can be implemented with your solution or they are not a
> > concern for Xen at all.
> > 
> > > 
> > > Nonetheless, if you have a concrete suggestion which doesn't require a
> > > complete rework of this series, I can try to put extra effort to handle
> > > this case even if it is not a benefit to my employer. I am also open to
> > > the possibility of dropping patches 6-10 from the series.
> > I don't think the series as it is would allow us to support re-usable
> > memory. However as I haven't spent enough time to understand how this could
> > be possibly dealt. So I am happy to be proved wrong.
> 
> I thought a bit more about this series during the night. I do agree that we
> need to improve the support of the reserved-memory today as we may give memory
> to the allocator that are could be exposed to a guest via a different method
> (iomem). So carving out the reserved-memory region from the memory allocator
> is the first step to go.
> 
> Now we have to differentiate the hardware domain from the other guests. I
> don't have any objection regarding the way to map reserved-memory region to
> the hardware domain because this is completely internal to Xen. However, I
> have some objections with the current interface for DomU:
>    1) It is still unclear how "reusable" property would fit in that story
>    2) It is definitely not possible for a user to use 'iomem' for
> reserved-memory region today because the partial Device-Tree doesn't allow you
> to create /reserved-memory node nor /memory
>    3) AFAIK, there are no way for to prevent the hardware domain to use the
> reserved-region (status = "disabled" would not work).
> So, IHMO, the guest support for reserved-memory is not in shape. So I think it
> would be best if we don't permit the reserved-memory region in the iomem
> rangeset. This would avoid us to tie us in an interface until we figure out
> the correct plan for guest.

Wouldn't be proper documentation be enough? (See below for where the
documentation should live.)

This is not about privilege over the system: whoever will make the
decision to ask the hypervisor to map the page will have all the
necessary rights to do it.  If the user wants to map a given region,
either because she knows what she is doing, because she is
experimenting, or for whatever reason, I think she should be allowed. In
fact, she can always do it by reverting the patch. So why make it
inconvenient for her?


> With that in place, I don't have a strong objection with patches 6-10.
> 
> In any case I think you should clearly spell out in the commit message what
> kind of reserved-memory region is supported.

Yes, this makes sense. I am thinking of adding a note to SUPPORT.md. Any
other places where I should write it down aside from commit messages?


> For instance, by just going through the binding, I have the feeling
> that those properties are not actually supported:
>     1) "no-map" - It is used to tell the OS to not create a virtual memory of
> the region as part of its standard mapping of system memory, nor permit
> speculative access to it under any circumstances other than under the control
> of the device driver using the region. On Arm64, Xen will map reserved-memory
> as part of xenheap (i.e the direct mapping), but carving out from xenheap
> would not be sufficient as we use 1GB block for the mapping. So they may still
> be covered. I would assume this is used for memory that needs to be mapped
> non-cacheable, so it is potentially critical as Xen would map them cacheable
> in the stage-1 hypervisor page-tables.
>     2) "alloc-ranges": it is used to specify regions of memory where it is
> acceptable to allocate memory from. This may not play well with the Dom0
> memory allocator.
>     3) "reusable": I mention here only for completeness. My understanding is
> it could potentially be used for hypercall buffer. This needs to be
> investigated.

Yes, you are right about these properties not being properly supported.
Do you think that I should list them in SUPPORT.md under a new iomem
section? Or do you prefer a longer document under docs/? Or both?

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  parent reply index

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-04-30 21:02 [PATCH v2 0/10] iomem memory policy Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 01/10] xen: add a p2mt parameter to map_mmio_regions Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-02 14:59   ` Jan Beulich
2019-05-02 14:59     ` [Xen-devel] " Jan Beulich
2019-05-02 18:49     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-02 18:49       ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-15 13:39   ` Oleksandr
2019-05-15 13:39     ` [Xen-devel] " Oleksandr
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 02/10] xen: rename un/map_mmio_regions to un/map_regions Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-01  9:22   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-01  9:22     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-06-17 21:24     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-18 11:05       ` Julien Grall
2019-06-18 20:19         ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-02 15:03   ` Jan Beulich
2019-05-02 15:03     ` [Xen-devel] " Jan Beulich
2019-05-02 18:55     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-02 18:55       ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 03/10] xen: extend XEN_DOMCTL_memory_mapping to handle memory policy Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-02 15:12   ` Jan Beulich
2019-05-02 15:12     ` [Xen-devel] " Jan Beulich
2019-06-17 21:28     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-18  8:59       ` Jan Beulich
2019-06-18 20:32         ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-18 23:15           ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-19  6:53             ` Jan Beulich
2019-05-07 16:41   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-07 16:41     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-06-17 22:43     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-18 11:13       ` Julien Grall
2019-05-15 14:40   ` Oleksandr
2019-05-15 14:40     ` [Xen-devel] " Oleksandr
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 04/10] libxc: introduce xc_domain_mem_map_policy Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 05/10] libxl/xl: add memory policy option to iomem Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-01  9:42   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-01  9:42     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-06-17 22:32     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-18 11:09       ` Julien Grall
2019-06-18 11:15   ` Julien Grall
2019-06-18 22:07     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-06-18 22:20       ` Julien Grall
2019-06-18 22:46         ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 06/10] xen/arm: extend device_tree_for_each_node Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-07 17:12   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-07 17:12     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 07/10] xen/arm: make process_memory_node a device_tree_node_func Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-01  9:47   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-01  9:47     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 08/10] xen/arm: keep track of reserved-memory regions Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-01 10:03   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-01 10:03     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-06-21 23:47     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-07 17:21   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-07 17:21     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 09/10] xen/arm: map reserved-memory regions as normal memory in dom0 Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-07 19:52   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-07 19:52     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-04-30 21:02 ` [PATCH v2 10/10] xen/arm: add reserved-memory regions to the dom0 memory node Stefano Stabellini
2019-04-30 21:02   ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-07 20:15   ` Julien Grall
2019-05-07 20:15     ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-05-10 20:51     ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-10 20:51       ` [Xen-devel] " Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-10 21:43       ` Julien Grall
2019-05-10 21:43         ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-05-11 12:40         ` Julien Grall
2019-05-11 12:40           ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-05-20 21:26           ` Stefano Stabellini [this message]
2019-05-20 21:26             ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-20 22:38             ` Julien Grall
2019-05-20 22:38               ` [Xen-devel] " Julien Grall
2019-06-05 16:30               ` Julien Grall
2019-06-21 23:47                 ` Stefano Stabellini
2019-05-16 16:52 ` [PATCH v2 0/10] iomem memory policy Oleksandr
2019-05-16 16:52   ` [Xen-devel] " Oleksandr
2019-06-21 23:48   ` Stefano Stabellini

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